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Thread: NRW Trophy 2012. Dortmund, December 5th-9th 2012.

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie View Post
    Just took a look at Kim's FS video. Hmmm. First off, I don't like the overall music selection or the specific cuts at all. Les Miz seems like going backwards for her as a vehicle to show off her artistic capabilities and maturity. Second, I don't like the construction of the program and choreography. And I particularly loathe those awful illusion dips in the step sequences (nor do I like any them in any other skater's program). Third, as to her performance: I'll give her a free pass on stamina issues which were apparent towards the end--for a first time out, the adjective that comes to mind on this program was "competent." But not a Wow! and I think largely because she doesn't have her performance face on. The whole program was lifelessly skated, actually, it was a downer and particularly since we know what she is capable of. Her jumps are quite good as usual, and I don't think the fall on the 2T or the popped combo was a big deal or a harbinger of doom--silly mistakes which I'm sure she'll fix on the next run of this in competition. Her spins and other elements definitely need a lot more work. Summary: No way was this a 200-point skate, despite what the judges seem to think. I felt like I sat down to a meal where the appetizer SP was reasonably yummy but the main entree FS was bland and left me still hungry.
    That's exactly how i felt, i just didn't know how to explain.

  2. #212
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    She really needs to work on her spins....especially the layback which really has no quality...jumps look good but I think the 3toe of the combo wasn't fully rotated, it was better in the long than in the short though....however good for her is she still can do it!
    for me the score is too high..but this is not new for he, is it?

  3. #213
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    I think Yuna's PCS was a bit high despite she made some mistakes, but not that much, 2-3 points, maybe?
    But she landed 9 triples including three beautiful TRUE 3Lz!! 201.6 looks very reasonable and fair considering what she put out. She needs to work on her spins and steps, they are still work in progress, but I like her new spins! Her signature layover camel spin is beautiful, and her layback position looks prettier than before.
    Given that it was her first competition after a long break, her skating was very impressive! I love her new programs, especially LP. Really enjoyed that!

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanja90 View Post
    She really needs to work on her spins....especially the layback which really has no quality...
    What level/GOE did she get for her layback? It actually is pretty good, at least as far as her back position is concerned. It would be prettier if she kept her leg down.

  5. #215
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    Let's keep in mind that senior B scores tend to be high due to the fact that elite skaters stand out a lot more. So the 201-ish score Yuna got can't be perfectly compared to GP scores, for example.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky85 View Post
    I think that people usually don't count the fall or underrotated jumps as clearn triples
    She didn't fall on any of her triples and got no under-rotation marks. I think she was scored about right on tech.

  7. #217
    the Golden Era sky_fly20's Avatar
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    Senior Men Menshov is doing well this season, If he goes to Worlds he might just get Russian 2 spots back

    Konstantin MENSHOV RUS 238,63 p LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LbL8...ature=youtu.be
    Michael BREZINA CZE 213,09 p. LP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIcHrhOatzY
    Peter LIEBERS GER 211,75 p.
    Chafik BESSEGHIER FRA 210,75 p.
    Misha GE UZB 210,66 p.
    Alexander MAJOROV SWE 193,74 p.
    Jin Seo KIM KOR 193,68 p.
    Paul FENTZ GER 181,63 p.
    Mark SHAKHMATOV RUS 173,32 p.
    Franz STREUBEL GER 172,29 p.
    Denis WIECZOREK GER 171,31 p.
    Dmitriy IGNATENKO UKR 169,33 p.
    Michael Christian MARTINEZ PHI 167,42 p.
    Valtter VIRTANEN FIN 167,15 p.
    Ryuichi KIHARA JPN 164,34 p.
    Igor REZNICHENKO UKR 164,16 p.
    Javier RAYA ESP 162,28 p.
    Felipe MONTOYA ESP 162,23 p.
    Petr COUFAL CZE 161,81 p.
    Victor BUSTAMENTE ESP 161,16 p.
    Harry MATTICK GBR 157,25 p.
    Saverio GIACOMELLI ITA 150,18 p.
    Matthias VERSLUIS FIN 150,31 p.
    Matthew PARR GBR 137,27 p.
    Viktor KREMKE GER 120,43 p.
    Florian GOSTELIE NED 106,60 p.
    Saulius AMBRULEVICIUS LTU 105,54 p.

    Long Program
    1 Konstantin MENSHOV
    RUS 158.90 84.52 74.38 7.38 7.19 7.56 7.50 7.56 0.00 #25
    2 Misha GE
    UZB 145.65 70.89 74.76 7.00 6.75 7.94 7.88 7.81 0.00 #27
    3 Peter LIEBERS
    GER 143.98 76.72 68.26 6.75 6.94 6.75 6.88 6.81 1.00 #23
    4 Chafik BESSEGHIER
    FRA 143.12 77.36 65.76 6.56 6.19 6.75 6.63 6.75 0.00 #22
    5 Michael BREZINA
    CZE 142.80 65.90 77.90 7.88 7.50 7.63 7.88 8.06 1.00 #26
    6 Alexander MAJOROV
    SWE 132.92 67.80 65.12 6.50 6.25 6.81 6.25 6.75 0.00 #21
    7 Jin Seo KIM
    KOR 124.03 58.75 65.28 6.69 6.19 6.63 6.44 6.69 0.00 #24
    8 Paul FENTZ
    GER 123.14 65.26 57.88 6.00 5.25 5.81 5.94 5.94 0.00 #18
    9 Mark SHAKHMATOV
    RUS 122.67 66.67 57.00 6.00 5.19 5.75 5.81 5.75 1.00 #9
    10 Ryuichi KIHARA
    JPN 121.73 66.45 55.28 5.88 5.31 5.63 5.44 5.38 0.00 #4
    11 Dmitriy IGNATENKO
    UKR 115.61 63.09 52.52 5.50 5.06 5.38 5.19 5.13 0.00 #13
    12 Franz STREUBEL
    GER 113.73 61.23 52.50 5.50 4.94 5.50 5.25 5.06 0.00 #17
    13 Denis WIECZOREK
    GER 111.83 61.93 49.90 5.38 5.00 4.94 5.00 4.63 0.00 #16
    14 Javier RAYA
    ESP 111.69 53.67 59.02 5.69 6.00 5.81 6.13 5.88 1.00 #6
    15 Valtter VIRTANEN
    FIN 108.36 51.96 56.40 5.75 5.38 5.69 5.75 5.63 0.00 #20
    16 Saverio GIACOMELLI
    ITA 107.95 51.67 56.28 5.75 5.38 5.63 5.75 5.63 0.00 #7
    17 Igor REZNICHENKO
    UKR 107.87 54.49 53.38 5.63 5.19 5.31 5.31 5.25 0.00 #12
    18 Michael Christian MARTINEZ
    PHI 107.52 54.74 53.78 5.31 5.38 5.63 5.19 5.38 1.00 #19
    19 Harry MATTICK
    GBR 107.36 53.60 54.76 5.31 4.88 5.75 5.69 5.75 1.00 #10
    20 Petr COUFAL
    CZE 107.30 53.94 53.36 5.56 5.00 5.50 5.31 5.31 0.00 #14
    21 Victor BUSTAMENTE
    ESP 105.42 50.04 55.38 5.63 5.50 5.56 5.44 5.56 0.00 #15
    22 Felipe MONTOYA
    ESP 105.06 51.28 53.78 5.50 5.25 5.38 5.38 5.38 0.00 #11
    23 Matthias VERSLUIS
    FIN 101.84 49.08 53.76 5.63 5.06 5.25 5.44 5.50 1.00 #8
    24 Matthew PARR
    GBR 92.96 45.20 47.76 5.06 4.38 4.88 4.75 4.81 0.00 #2
    25 Viktor KREMKE
    GER 77.83 39.93 38.90 4.38 3.56 3.94 3.88 3.69 1.00 #5
    26 Saulius AMBRULEVICIUS
    LTU 73.40 33.50 40.90 4.69 4.00 3.94 3.88 3.94 1.00 #1
    27 Florian GOSTELIE
    NED 68.28 32.76 38.52 4.31 3.69 3.63 3.88 3.75 3.00 #3
    Last edited by sky_fly20; 12-09-2012 at 11:08 PM.

  8. #218
    One does not simply skate into Sochi MaiKatze's Avatar
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    I'm back from Dortmund and this thread has gained 10 pages. Half of South Korea attended NRW Trophy it seems. Watching figure skating live is much more draining than I thought. I was utterly exhausted after Saturday was over. There were so many skaters, and I watched them all! On Saturday I saw S/S live for the first time. I don't know, if it was the program, the exhaustion or just them, but I wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be. Maybe Aljona was still not a 100% healthy. Thank good they changed the FS costume as well, even though I don't really like the combi of her unitard with a skirt.

    Someone wrote that Yuna looked thin, and I have to agree, seeing her in person, she seems extremely frail and delicate. I never saw her before, though, so it might be she always looks this way. Fame like hers comes with a price, I guess. She was always followed by a huge crowd by everything she did. People in the audience were mainly Koreans and once she came into the venue, even the skater currently on the ice was quickly forgotten. Of course, she and Jin Seo Kim were the only skaters bombarded with presents. I liked her FS dress. It may look plain on pictures, but it was so beautiful in motion. While she did skate the best of all the ladies, there is room for improovement, especially in the presentation department. Technically she was really good. Even with the falls. This was her debut after pausing, so not everything is going to be perfect. And for the first time I understood how hard it must be for the judges! It isn't easy at all, when everything goes so fast, to see UR or Edge Calls. I know it is their job, but judges get a lot of unfair hate when the job isn't that easy, imho.

    Mens event seems forgotten here. But Konstantin Menshov...let me just say wow. He was awesome and landed all of his jumps. He won this easily, and I think I'm a fan now. Russia should focus on Menshov, imho. (Besides Plushenko) I know he isn't the youngest horse in the stable, but look at Plushenko. Where was Menshov in the years before? Time to do some research. Michael Brezina wasn't bad, but did some costly mistakes in his free. He has a natural arrogance to him, which is quite charming. Misha Ge is a funny guy and pretty entertaining. Peter Liebers was so-so, I wouldn't really have put him into third, but this was home turf.

  9. #219
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I really liked Menshov's skating at SkAm
    Definitely, Russia should give him some respect. He has been skating consistenly well this season.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melon View Post
    I think you forgot to read her interview before this competition.
    She explained in the interview that she's competing in NRW trophy to get the minimum TES score, not to artistically prove herself. Hence why you see some awkwardness in her skating, and lack of true interpretation. I also felt a bit odd when she was skating, I felt like she wasn't giving in everything she had, not because she couldn't
    I didn't need to read her interview, it's well known that the prime reason for her competing here is to get her qualifying TES score. My first and second points still stand, as does my summary above. The music selection of Les Miz, and the music edits themselves are just so beneath her. The choreography is lackluster. This is just not a program that has unlimited upside Wow potential, regardless of how well she eventually executes/performs it. And it wasn't a 200 point skate and should not have been scored as such.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie View Post
    I didn't need to read her interview, it's well known that the prime reason for her competing here is to get her qualifying TES score. My first and second points still stand, as does my summary above. The music selection of Les Miz, and the music edits themselves are just so beneath her. The choreography is lackluster. This is just not a program that has unlimited upside Wow potential, regardless of how well she eventually executes/performs it. And it wasn't a 200 point skate and should not have been scored as such.
    What makes you say so? Have some respect to the skater, and the choreographer.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaiKatze View Post
    I'm back from Dortmund and this thread has gained 10 pages. Half of South Korea attended NRW Trophy it seems. Watching figure skating live is much more draining than I thought. I was utterly exhausted after Saturday was over. There were so many skaters, and I watched them all! On Saturday I saw S/S live for the first time. I don't know, if it was the program, the exhaustion or just them, but I wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be. Maybe Aljona was still not a 100% healthy. Thank good they changed the FS costume as well, even though I don't really like the combi of her unitard with a skirt.

    Someone wrote that Yuna looked thin, and I have to agree, seeing her in person, she seems extremely frail and delicate. I never saw her before, though, so it might be she always looks this way. Fame like hers comes with a price, I guess. She was always followed by a huge crowd by everything she did. People in the audience were mainly Koreans and once she came into the venue, even the skater currently on the ice was quickly forgotten. Of course, she and Jin Seo Kim were the only skaters bombarded with presents. I liked her FS dress. It may look plain on pictures, but it was so beautiful in motion. While she did skate the best of all the ladies, there is room for improovement, especially in the presentation department. Technically she was really good. Even with the falls. This was her debut after pausing, so not everything is going to be perfect. And for the first time I understood how hard it must be for the judges! It isn't easy at all, when everything goes so fast, to see UR or Edge Calls. I know it is their job, but judges get a lot of unfair hate when the job isn't that easy, imho.

    Mens event seems forgotten here. But Konstantin Menshov...let me just say wow. He was awesome and landed all of his jumps. He won this easily, and I think I'm a fan now. Russia should focus on Menshov, imho. (Besides Plushenko) I know he isn't the youngest horse in the stable, but look at Plushenko. Where was Menshov in the years before? Time to do some research. Michael Brezina wasn't bad, but did some costly mistakes in his free. He has a natural arrogance to him, which is quite charming. Misha Ge is a funny guy and pretty entertaining. Peter Liebers was so-so, I wouldn't really have put him into third, but this was home turf.
    Thanks for the report, MaiKatze! I agree with you that watching figure skating can be exhausting! Was surprised at how much it consumed my weekend when I went to SkAm. ( I guess I shouldn't be though, CoyoteChris warned me as such, LOL. And I didn't even go to the practices!)

    So happy to see that Menshov is continuing to do well. He was a pleasant surprise to me as well at SkAm. He definitely doesn't have the components of other skaters, but when he hits his jumps, wow! I'm glad Misha Ge did well at this competition as well. Odd to hear about Brenzia getting beat by a bunch of folks.

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie View Post
    Just took a look at Kim's FS video. Hmmm. First off, I don't like the overall music selection or the specific cuts at all. Les Miz seems like going backwards for her as a vehicle to show off her artistic capabilities and maturity. Second, I don't like the construction of the program and choreography. And I particularly loathe those awful illusion dips in the step sequences (nor do I like any them in any other skater's program). Third, as to her performance: I'll give her a free pass on stamina issues which were apparent towards the end--for a first time out, the adjective that comes to mind on this program was "competent." But not a Wow! and I think largely because she doesn't have her performance face on. The whole program was lifelessly skated, actually, it was a downer and particularly since we know what she is capable of. Her jumps are quite good as usual, and I don't think the fall on the 2T or the popped combo was a big deal or a harbinger of doom--silly mistakes which I'm sure she'll fix on the next run of this in competition. Her spins and other elements definitely need a lot more work. Summary: No way was this a 200-point skate, despite what the judges seem to think. I felt like I sat down to a meal where the appetizer SP was reasonably yummy but the main entree FS was bland and left me still hungry.
    If you don't like the music, no wonder that you dislike the program. Okay, fine, we all like what we like and dislike what we dislike. What I don't see is any support for your opinion that Les Miz is "going backwards" for her. Gershwin wasn't accessible for a lot of people, Homage to Korea even less so. Les Mis is more accessible but not as overused as another ballet or opera (i.e. Turandot), so I thought it was a great choice for her. I also don't see why it's "beneath her."

    You may dislike the construction of the program and choreography, but I don't see any support for why it's bad, or "lackluster" as you called it in your other post. My personal opinion of what I like and dislike aside, I think the structure is excellent--neither frontloaded nor backloaded, the elements are evenly spread out. I think the 3S directly into the footwork is unique and brilliant, and a great example of how sometimes having good transitions is not having a lot of space or set-up in between elements. The fact that the footwork is in the first half is also a nice unique touch. The choreographed spiral sequence leading into an Ina Bauer leading into the 2A is absolutely unique and an example of great choreography, transitions, and elements blending together seamlessly. I haven't seen the choreographed sequence connecting to other elements like this from another lady (if someone has, please let me know--my point still stands that this is awesome). Could the spiral, and other elements (spins) have been excecuted better? Absolutely, there is plenty of room for improvement in a number of areas, but I think the foundation of a great program is there, which paves the road for an even better performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie View Post
    I didn't need to read her interview, it's well known that the prime reason for her competing here is to get her qualifying TES score. My first and second points still stand, as does my summary above. The music selection of Les Miz, and the music edits themselves are just so beneath her. The choreography is lackluster. This is just not a program that has unlimited upside Wow potential, regardless of how well she eventually executes/performs it. And it wasn't a 200 point skate and should not have been scored as such.
    I'll easily agree with on on that this wasn't a 200 point skate. It was a 129.34 point skate, which is a pretty average score for a FS with 5 clean triples (2 lutzes and one 3Lz/3T). She broke 200 mainly because of her excellent performance in the SP and nailing all her jumps there.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by creme cup View Post
    What makes you say so? Have some respect to the skater, and the choreographer.
    The program selection, compared to much of the material she chose to work with in 2007-2010, is not good. Not crap, but not great. It's trite, it treads no new ground, and with the cuts of music flipping from one Les Miz song to the other, it comes off as an incoherent Skating to the Greatest Hits piece. I wouldn't bat an eye if a junior level skater showed up with something like this, but an Olympic champion?! I'd rather see her go back and do a rework of Lark Ascending before this pablum. As for the Les Miz music, I do like it and have had the complete collection in my possession since it first came out, so it isn't that, as somebody else posted above. Example, a Les Miz with potential: Jeremy Abbott's single selection of Bring Him Home. Although I don't think that program's soup yet, and needs some choreo tweaks and better technical execution, it hangs together as having champion-worthy potential. I'm not seeing where Yuna's does, even if she decides to add the emotion/performance aspects. Oh she may win competitions with it, to be sure, but for me it will be a forgettable program regardless.

    As for "respect," I think you are equating this to "slavish devotion to all things Yuna and her team do." In other words, worship her as a goddess. Fat chance. I don't do skater-worship very well regardless of who it is. This is a discussion forum and this thread is about a competition. Don't try to turn it into a skater's dedicated fan site. If somebody feels Yuna deserves criticism for some aspect of her program or her skating, then it should not be a crime to put it out there on a public forum.
    Last edited by bigsisjiejie; 12-10-2012 at 12:18 PM.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaiKatze View Post
    I'm back from Dortmund and this thread has gained 10 pages. Half of South Korea attended NRW Trophy it seems. Watching figure skating live is much more draining than I thought. I was utterly exhausted after Saturday was over. There were so many skaters, and I watched them all! On Saturday I saw S/S live for the first time. I don't know, if it was the program, the exhaustion or just them, but I wasn't as impressed as I thought I would be. Maybe Aljona was still not a 100% healthy. Thank good they changed the FS costume as well, even though I don't really like the combi of her unitard with a skirt.

    Someone wrote that Yuna looked thin, and I have to agree, seeing her in person, she seems extremely frail and delicate. I never saw her before, though, so it might be she always looks this way. Fame like hers comes with a price, I guess. She was always followed by a huge crowd by everything she did. People in the audience were mainly Koreans and once she came into the venue, even the skater currently on the ice was quickly forgotten. Of course, she and Jin Seo Kim were the only skaters bombarded with presents. I liked her FS dress. It may look plain on pictures, but it was so beautiful in motion. While she did skate the best of all the ladies, there is room for improovement, especially in the presentation department. Technically she was really good. Even with the falls. This was her debut after pausing, so not everything is going to be perfect. And for the first time I understood how hard it must be for the judges! It isn't easy at all, when everything goes so fast, to see UR or Edge Calls. I know it is their job, but judges get a lot of unfair hate when the job isn't that easy, imho.

    Mens event seems forgotten here. But Konstantin Menshov...let me just say wow. He was awesome and landed all of his jumps. He won this easily, and I think I'm a fan now. Russia should focus on Menshov, imho. (Besides Plushenko) I know he isn't the youngest horse in the stable, but look at Plushenko. Where was Menshov in the years before? Time to do some research. Michael Brezina wasn't bad, but did some costly mistakes in his free. He has a natural arrogance to him, which is quite charming. Misha Ge is a funny guy and pretty entertaining. Peter Liebers was so-so, I wouldn't really have put him into third, but this was home turf.

    Thanks so much for your detailed report. It really gave me a sense of the atmosphere of the event.

    Like you, I'm a fan of Aliona and Robin, so I'm sorry to hear they weren't at their best, but I'm sure that seeing them live was still a treat. I haven't really seen their programs this year, so I don't know what to expect from them.

    On the strength of your reaction, I'll look up Menshov. I'm not familiar with him at all, but he sounds wonderful. I'm glad Misha Ge was there and gave a good impression on the ice. He seems very interesting, just from his life story alone.

    YuNa often gives me the impression of being too thin and a bit frail, partly because the first year I really watched her was the year she had hurt her back. I thought at that point I'd be watching her break in two right there on the ice. But isn't it great that she did so well after such a long hiatus? I'm glad she looked as good from your vantage point of being right there in the stadium as she did to me on the YouTube screen. Certainly it's easy to see where she needs to improve, but the jumps she managed to pull off in the short program at least were pretty astonishing.

    You did a great job as an on-the-scene reporter! Thanks again.

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