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Thread: Can Chan beat Hanyu if both skate their best?

  1. #16
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    In your hypothetical, Chan wins. That simple. Hanyu has a few years to catch up on his presentation. Like it or not a clean or mostly clean Chan is going to beat Hanyu. Javi has more finesse, Dai has the PCS scores when he has the jumps. Hanyu is a baby, and count on Patrick to peak at Worlds and work his butt off to get gold. If he doesn't skate the best, he won't ever do worse than siilver. WC's are judged with more generosity that young pups. Gold might blow Akiko away, or Mao, but a lot of judges and the small skating community want to see the veterans pay off. Hanyu is all over the place in his FS and stamina is and will be a huge issue. If Patrick starts jumping consistenly and even relatively clean, he is really in another league. A s for men, Kozuka is a threat, Dai and Javier if the jumps are there but being from Spain does not help. I see more Chanflation, but let us be honest, Patricks skating skills are the best in the world. Jump consistency is his bigaboo. If he skates like he did at CoR, he is close to unbeatable. Evgeni Plushenko whould just stay home at age 30. Hanyu will be king when the current group all retire after Sochi, but Patrick is far more polished, as is normal considering he is 4 years older. I think I am objective. I'm no huge Chan the person fan, I'm not Canadian or a memeber of his Chinese support group. I have really hated a system and the favoritism that gave him wins with so many falls, rotated jumps or not. But he is the best when on and I can imagine how muchmore consisten at landing quads and triple axels he might be. This is key going forward. He is unbeatable on the ice right now. . I am clueless why he has no jump coach. This is key to his future succes and Sochi gold, IMO. It makes no sense as this is the coach he needs, not a modern dance coach...WTH?

  2. #17
    Rinkside
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    Oh... come on
    Is Hayu's skating as good as Chan? No way!
    Does he have the same successful rate for quad as Chan? No.
    Does he have stamina to last to the end of program? No!
    Is his PCS inflated? Big Yes!
    Is he JFS's favorite? Yes!

    Overall, Chan win.
    Both PCS are inflated, but Chan's skating is obviously far superior. The judges will lose justification to give him high PCS if similar PCS
    is given to Hanyu whose SS is obviously inferior.

  3. #18
    Ya'll just need to ignore it. aftertherain's Avatar
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    (Edited post.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Niki2012 View Post
    Oh... come on
    Is Hayu's skating as good as Chan? No way!
    Does he have the same successful rate for quad as Chan? No.
    Does he have stamina to last to the end of program? No!
    Is his PCS inflated? Big Yes!
    Is he JFS's favorite? Yes!
    Yeah, I remember him sitting down after some of his programs because he was so tired!
    Last edited by aftertherain; 11-12-2012 at 03:24 AM.

  4. #19
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    The answer to the title quesiton is: Yes. If both skated perfectly with planned jumps and emotions, Chan cannot beat Hanyu on jump content and Base Value. However, Chan will have much better qualities on the executions of everything. So I think in the old 6.0 system, Hanyu could pull out like Tara Lipinski against Michelle Kwan. But in CoP system, everything counts. Probably Chan could narrowly win over Hanyu. If in this case Chan won, will it be unfair? Not at all.

  5. #20
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommmy View Post
    I think it would be more accurate to say
    "Can Yuzuru Hanyu beat Patrick Chan if both skate at their best? "
    right. Chan's PCS are deservedly higher than Yuzuru. Yuzuru is very, very talented, his jumps are fantastic, but if they both land everything as planned and perform their best Chan wins.

  6. #21
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    I'm a huge fan of Yuzuru, but it's clear that Patrick's skating skills are waaay better - at the moment. It will be interesting to see how fast Yuzu-san can catch up - I'd very much like to see him beat Patrick at some point, maybe not in Sochi 2014 but after (that is, if Patrick continues skating after the Olympics).

  7. #22
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Sorry while i'm not the biggest Chan fan Patrick has superior skating skills compared to Hanyu and also has those quads also.
    I'll grant you the superior skating skills, but why does it matter that Chan has a quad? Hanyu already has two different quads and a much more consistent 3A that he can do out of difficult entries.

    I'm not sure what happens if both skate their best this season. If they continue to progress at similar rates to what they have so far, by next season I'm going to give the edge to Hanyu - because Chan appears to have reached his peak technically and is very near (if not beyond) it on the components, unlike Hanyu, who still has room to grow and keeps adding new things to his repertoire. However, whether Hanyu can skate his best is always a question mark given his asthma.

  8. #23
    Custom Title FSGMT's Avatar
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    If they both skate their best (but this is really an impossible thing to happen this season in the same competition, considering Patrick's incostance and Hanyu's physical probelms), with the abilities and the jumps they have at the moment, I think Patrick will obviously win. His PCS would be superior, with a clean program his SS, CH and PE marks would be near 10, and the other components around 9.75, when Hanyu can reach marks between 9 and 9.50, especially considering the weak choreography of his FS this season... then we have the elements: when they land them, they can both receive +2 and +3 for their quads and 3As, but Patrick's "normal" triples (lutz, flip, loop, salchow) are better, and so are his spins and steps (also Hanyu's spins and steps are beautiful, but Patrick's are just a bit better!), so I think that at the moment (again!), Patrick would be better than Hanyu. But, if Yuzuru will keep working with Brian and Wilson/Buttle he can catch Patrick, I think, in the future...

  9. #24
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    In my opinion Chan will beat Yuzuru in worlds. Both skaters are member of the new generation, they grew up under the new system, but the Worlds will held in Canada. I think, Patrick will be in great shape there, and Canada is his home country. Plus he is 3 years older than Yuzuru. I think, Yuzuru could defeat easily the 18 y.o. Patrick. It's the future.
    (But that is the history, Yagudin wasn't so prodigy and talented like Plushenko, and he wasn't innovative like Plush.)

  10. #25
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT
    but Patrick's "normal" triples (lutz, flip, loop, salchow) are better, and so are his spins and steps (also Hanyu's spins and steps are beautiful, but Patrick's are just a bit better!)
    Spins...? I don't mean to be rude - but are you serious? His spins are Patricks weakest point, and while he's good at centering them and they're really not slow, Yuzurus are faster and he is more flexible and has more variety in his positions + harder ones (this season Yuzuru's spins aren't looking that good anymore, but if you look at last season...). I think Yuzuru is definitly the better spinner.

    About the other triples: I'm pretty sure that's his lack of stamina kicking in. The later in the program, the less +GOE Yuzu gets for his jumps. He did the 3F as the third jump last worlds, and got about +2 for that too. If he'd had the stamina, I'm pretty sure the later jumps would still garner huge +GOE too - quite in the same amount as Patrick's.

    To get back on the overall question - that's so tough!
    I think Yuzuru would win the TES... not by much, but the second 3A + his better spins would make him come out ahead. PCS would go to Patrick and would probably make him win overall - that would at least be how it should be for me. Anyway, if Yuzuru continues to develop like he did those last years (and I don't really see a reason why he shouldn't), he might be the one winning this comparison next season.
    I'd still say Patrick is the one to beat and will be next season, because he's more likely to be clean than Yuzuru is (as things are lokking now).

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    but why does it matter that Chan has a quad? Hanyu already has two different quads and a much more consistent 3A that he can do out of difficult entries.

    I'm not sure what happens if both skate their best this season.
    Maybe you are not sure. Patrick is sure:

    "I mainly worked on the technique. Much more than on the artistry. Components have always been my strong point. I always find it easy to deal with PCS."

    "I think that learning 4F and 4S is more like funning around. My favourite was always 4T. I am sure in this jump."

    http://ua.championat.com/other/artic...of-russia.html

  12. #27
    can't come down to Earth prettykeys's Avatar
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    These are two of my favourite male skaters right now. Yuzuru Hanyu is an adorable and incredibly talented youngster. However, Patrick Chan is still the better skater between the two of them. For now, I would be surprised if they both skated at their very best and the judges gave it to Hanyu.

  13. #28
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    In my opinion Chan will beat Yuzuru in worlds. Both skaters are member of the new generation, they grew up under the new system, but the Worlds will held in Canada. I think, Patrick will be in great shape there, and Canada is his home country. Plus he is 3 years older than Yuzuru. I think, Yuzuru could defeat easily the 18 y.o. Patrick. It's the future.
    (But that is the history, Yagudin wasn't so prodigy and talented like Plushenko, and he wasn't innovative like Plush.)
    Actually they're 4 years apart in age,

    Patrick's birth date: 31.12.1990
    Yuzuru's birth date: 07.12.1994

  14. #29
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommmy View Post
    Actually they're 4 years apart in age,

    Patrick's birth date: 31.12.1990
    Yuzuru's birth date: 07.12.1994
    Yes, yes, I know! I did a mistake, I'm sorry!

  15. #30
    One does not simply skate into Sochi MaiKatze's Avatar
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    That's a whole Olympic Cycle. Haha. Yuzuru is still so young he has many Olympics in front of him. Maybe he can even become a multiple Olympic Champion. Patrick also, if he wins the OGM he is not that old, 2018 is still an option.

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