If I could wave a magic wand, I would just wish that figure skating were more popular overall, and that more people could develop an appreciation for it, including the nuances such as different jumps, spins, lifts, etc. I just love this sport and wish more people loved it too (in an intelligent way--not just a "that costume is nice" or "I like that music" kind of way). When I see the reams of ink spilled on other, IMO lesser, sports, and the incredible amount of commercial and media attention they receive, I just wish skating could have even a fraction of that interest and attention.
On a more practical level, an immediate change I'd like to see is readjustment of spin levels/criteria/points in IJS. Lately I feel like everyone's spins look the same and have the same positions, which is just boring. And although everyone is doing very difficult spins, not many people really do them well. I'd really rather see a simpler spin done well than one with six changes of position but done poorly.
Originally Posted by eyria
Well, that's one way to narrow the field.
Originally Posted by Slowdive
But it will slow down the competitions if they bleed and the ice has to be resurfaced after almost every skater.
To obliterate PCS and rep scoring. NJS is really no different from the old 6.0 system in this regard- judges' favorites still get held up, skating order still matters, and newcomers still get held down in scores.
The critical difference between NJS and 6.0 is that every element is now quantified and measured, whereas before the scoring seemed arbitrary. But the core of the judging problem has not been fixed. And what's more, I think the "anonymous" element that the system now has makes it that much harder to cry foul over a shady result.
Since it is human nature to have preferences, and it is impossible to be completely, 100% unbiased, they should get rid of, or at least greatly reduce the influence of, the subjective PCS marks. They should also simplify the GOE and levels of jumps and spins. Too much room IMO to potentially manipulate.
I'm going to mention a couple of changes that might seem unrelated but are all part of the same process of open communication and education, which should give the judging more credibility in the public mind:
Get rid of the anonymous scoring at the senior international level -- let the public and the skaters know which judges gave which marks, and if necessary find other ways to protect judges from pressure by their federations etc.
Build in mechanisms for officials to explain their decisions to the press and public as well as to skaters and their coaches etc.
Find ways to communicate to the public the general principles of what's considered good skating technique so that new viewers can quickly learn to appreciate good skating as well as good jumping and good artistry.
Creat more categories for international and national level competitions, such as jump only, spin only. Creat the world jump champions and the world spin Champions. Creat more opportunity for altheletes to success.
I like that one, hzhzhz123!
So, one of the WC titles (spins, obviously!) would be a battle Czisny vs Lipnitskaya (but czisny would obviously win!)
Originally Posted by hzhzhz123
I wish obtaining high levels wasn't so important in some areas, or that you could get as much as a level four for a simple element done really well. Can you even get a level four on a simple but beautiful layback spin done extremely well (and held long enough)? Or do you have to go to a haircutter or Biellmann? I'm a new figure skating fan and no expert but it seems like many skaters feel the Biellmann is necessary even if they can't do it well or if it causes them extreme pain/possibly back injury. I would also prefer spiral sequences (or not even a sequence, just one nice spiral) and footwork to match the music well than to force something level four that doesn't match. I guess I just wish things were freer (especially in the free skate like os168 said) instead of certain things practically being required in order to earn points -- and it does seem like 6.0 was better in that regard -- but maybe CoP can be tweaked to the point of being even better than 6.0, I don't know.
Last edited by avalyn; 11-14-2012 at 05:07 PM.
Wicked Yankee Girl
Avalyn, Welcome to Golden Skate!
Level 4 requires 4 "features," which implies at least a certain degree of complexity.
Originally Posted by avalyn
The "done really well" part would be reflected in the Grade of Execution, not in the level.
Here are the possible levels for spins; I've bolded the ones that can apply to the typical forward layback:
1) Difficult variations (count as many times as performed with limitations specified below)
2) Change of foot executed by jump
3) Jump within a spin without changing feet
4) Difficult variation of flying entrance/Landing on the same foot as take-off or
changing foot on landing in a Flying Sit Spin
5) Backward entrance
6) Clear change of edge in sit (only from backward inside to forward outside), camel,
Layback and Biellmann position
7) All 3 basic positions on both feet
8) Both directions immediately following each other in sit or camel spin
9) Clear increase of speed in camel, sit, layback or Biellmann position
10) At least 8 rev. without changes in position/variation, foot or edge (camel, layback,
difficult variation of any basic position or for combinations only non-basic position)
Additional features for the Layback spin:
11) One clear change of position backwards-sideways or reverse, at least 3 rev. in each
position (counts also if the Layback spin is a part of any other spin)
12) Biellmann position after Layback spin (SP – after 8 revolutions in layback spin)
So that's 6 possible features, of which haircutter (difficult position -- feature 1) and Biellmann position (feature 12) are only 2. If you delete those, it would be possible to have a level 4 layback by holding one position for 8 revolutions, changing edge, increasing the speed (tech panels seem reluctant to award this feature), and changing from a backward to a sideways position or vice versa.
In order to get level 4 without there would have to be at least one change of position in the upper body to get the side-to-back feature and probably in the free leg position to get the increase of speed feature. If they could be done simultaneously, and if the change of edge can be smooth enough that it doesn't disrupt the rotation of the spin, then it would be possible to have a level 4 layback that doesn't look too busy.
Of course, if you can do three of those things in a backward layback, then you could also get credit for the backward entry feature and earn level 4.
I think the important thing -- and this is a change I definitely encourage -- is to make sure the values of the GOEs are high enough that it would be worth more to do a level 2 layback with +3 GOE than to do level 4 with +1 GOE.
Of course, the most points should go to the skaters who can do level 4 well enough to earn all +3s.
[/quote]but maybe CoP can be tweaked to the point of being even better than 6.0, I don't know.[/QUOTE]
I'm very interested in ways to tweak the existing system to achieve the goals you mention -- rewarding quality and giving more freedom in the free program. We've had some threads discussing those topics.
Thanks for the welcome, and thanks gkelly for explaining! I thought if the layback was fast enough and in flawless position throughout (which is probably pretty difficult to do), it might could get a high level, but I see that more features are necessary. But I agree with this, it would be great to see some skaters try this approach more often and be rewarded:
Originally Posted by gkelly
I'm confused about forward and backward laybacks.
Originally Posted by gkelly
I totally miss the spiral. I am totally happy if I see someone do a decent one, even for half the length of the rink.
+1 on bringing back the 6.0 system. Diehards are wiling to put in the work to understand the system, but others simply won't, especially when results still end up wacky and ridiculous.
While at it, get rid of the ISU's death grip and make a proper Skating Tour open to everyone (getting rid of "Olympic division" skating) with solid sponsor and enough prize money for skaters to actually support themselves and want to keep skating instead of going off into acting/fashion design/singing/etc, etc.