Lack of flexibility to replace withdrawn skater in Grand Prix - Your thoughts? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Lack of flexibility to replace withdrawn skater in Grand Prix - Your thoughts?

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I know. But wallylutz said Osmond could "beat every single American woman out there".

I guess wallylutz is wrong.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Oh, this conversation is getting ridiculous.

Would I like to see Osmond with a second GP? Yes. She's clearly ready for it. I don't know how well she'd perform, of course, but given that she's had two victories back to back, posted relatively decent scores at both, and in general is a bright talent with a flair for performing, I don't think it's the worst idea in the history of the universe.

Did Osmond earn a second GP? No. The only skaters that "earn" two GPs are those that were top ten at Worlds. She wasn't. And while her skates this season have been worthy of praise, that's not what determines GP selection.

Mathman, I'd be interested in how much money the ISU saved by cutting two singles skaters (four in total) and two dance teams from each GP event. I'd suggest that investing in a solid competition circuit promotes the sport and makes money in the long term.
 

ForeverFish

Medalist
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Perhaps. Tuktamysheva has 22 points and Lipnitskaia has 24. If Asada and Suzuki finish 1-2 at NHK (in any order), both Russian ladies could make the GPF.

I believe they will. Asada and Suzuki will have the home ice advantage, and even elsewhere, I wouldn't expect any of the other skaters to surpass them.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Mathman, I'd be interested in how much money the ISU saved by cutting two singles skaters (four in total) and two dance teams from each GP event. I'd suggest that investing in a solid competition circuit promotes the sport and makes money in the long term.

The ISU cut back on the number of judges (from 14 to 9) a couple of years ago so they wouldn't have to pay hotels and meals for so many. They reduced the prize money for ISU championships substantially (and I believe that they no longer give the prize money for the best season any more?). I don't think any of the Grand Prix events makes money, except NHK. For Skate America, it is a struggle each year to find a city and local club willing to put it on. At 2009 Skate America the ISU threatened to withhold the promised financial support because they felt that the USFSA hadn't worked hard enough to line up a satisfactory television contract for the Olympic season.

Overall, I have the impression that the ISU cannot invest in a solid competition circuit because they have nothing to invest. Plus, there is little prospect of reviving interest in skating anyway. :cry:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I also have the impression that the ISU has deliberately turned the sport inward in the last six or eight years. The Grand Prix in particular seems more for the skaters than for the fans, audience, or general public.

(I might be wrong about that.)
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Lots of whining by the Canadians, methinks.

The most outrageous whining and the most frequent whinings were by non-Canadians aimed at Canadians.:p

Suck it up, fans. There's no conspiracy here.

So true! You should have said this a couple of weeks ago when the conspiracy theories were flying high.;)




...Back on the topic. I really don't care one way or another. Osmond is so young. She has plenty opportunities ahead of her.
 
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sillylionlove

Medalist
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
I also have the impression that the ISU has deliberately turned the sport inward in the last six or eight years. The Grand Prix in particular seems more for the skaters than for the fans, audience, or general public.

(I might be wrong about that.)

I agree. The judging system has been hard for people to understand. I live figure skating but since the new judging system so many of the programs are cookie cutter and the artistry of most programs is all but gone.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I also have the impression that the ISU has deliberately turned the sport inward in the last six or eight years. The Grand Prix in particular seems more for the skaters than for the fans, audience, or general public.

(I might be wrong about that.)

Of course, if it was "more for the skaters" one might argue that having and encouraging more skaters would be a position to hold.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ Yes, that it is. I wish figure skating would reach outward a little more, but this argument has come up many times and I always end up on the losing side.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
^ Yes, that it is. I wish figure skating would reach outward a little more, but this argument has come up many times and I always end up on the losing side.

I'll articulate it for you :D

One of the issues with COP is that, as compared to 6.0, it diminishes feeling. The audience doesn't necessarily know what a 5.8 means in terms of rules or content, but they probably know (or knew) what a 5.8 felt like. While you can hold the position that COP is easy to explain and you can pore over the protocols and rules to know what 168.65 is, there's no way to convey what it feels like. Consequently, people are less interested because there's less emotional investment in the outcome.

Does that make sense as a starting point?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Yes, it does. :yes:

When we get blown away by an amazing performance, 6.0 is like proclaiming the new emperor by acclamation. CoP is more like tallying the votes at the end of a grueling electoral campaign. One pleases the mob, but maybe the other results in better societal decision-making.

I am more of an unruly mob guy myself, but the erudite political scientists on this board have shown me the error of my ways. :)
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Osmond is a kid in her first senior season compared to Wagner who is a veteran.
Don't you know that reputation judging of PCS doesn't exist in this world!?
 
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mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Well she should be she's seven years older and still doing the easy jumps in her short program.
Wagner is FOUR years older than Osmund, NOT seven. (21-17)

3F+2T, 3Lo, and 2A (with the loop and Axel taking advantage of the second half bonus) is nearly equivalent to 3T+3T, 3Lz, 2A (with no second half bonus) with equivalent spins and steps and deservedly better PCS due to command of the ice, skating skills, and interpretation.

I believe you are all confusing Wagner with Korpi. Wagner is the American with a dark ash blonde hair who's 3F is by far her best jump and chooses dramatic music she can really interpret well. Korpi is the Finish skater with the flaxen colored hair who's biggest weapon in the SP is 3T+3T (when she actually does it since she did 3T+2T in Russia and scored over 61) and skates to soft, pretty music which (according to her non-fans) make all her programs have a sameness....
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
With all the fuss about Osmond, fact is Skate Canada has to take some of the blame.

People fail to recognize that GP berths are pretty much determined by what skaters have accomplished LAST season. Skate Canada didn't even send Osmond to the JGP in 2011-2012. Instead, they send Charbonneau, Purich and Najarro; the best placement among them was a 5th place. Osmond's one and only international event was JW, where she placed 10th---very respectable, but not spectacular.

Skate Canada doesn't take advantage of the many International Bs to give their skaters a chance to show what they can do before international judges. If Kaetlyn had been sent to one or two Bs last season as a senior, and made it to the podium, perhaps she would have had more recognition.
 
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