Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 103

Thread: 2012 TEB Men's Short Program SP

  1. #61
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Bucharest, Romania
    Posts
    1,613
    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Why no need. No it wasn't okay. That's why skating safe policy is a dangerous thing. Will move around ....
    Then I take back what I said.(but I don't find anything wrong with Machida or Jeremy's scores to be honest). The thing is Mura would have been closer if his combo was clean. He got his 3T< and negative GOE. It's not Jeremy's fault that the quad guys didn't completely deliver. He went clean and this is how it turned out today. I don't see any merits in going for a quad which the skater doesn't master and almost always takes a fall(Verner, Amodio for example).
    Last edited by Mirunna; 11-16-2012 at 12:12 PM.

  2. #62
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Left field
    Posts
    3,418
    Newsflash: PCS are to some extent subjective, and sometimes skaters one dislikes will get what will seem like a too-high score. Deal with it or go watch a ski event.

  3. #63
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,188
    Quote Originally Posted by machin View Post
    Amodio too... And with no jump + one spin missing he still manage not to finish last. 13.85 pt for two falls... Thanks wonderful COP.
    Under 6.0 this would never happen. Let's not talk about Amodio 7 in performance/execution for his worst skate ever. Or 7.4 for empty choreo.

  4. #64
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I thought Amodio was a solid one among these skaters before it started.

    I'm really happy that Jeremy stopped trying quad in SP and made this new jumping layout! It worked!
    It worked here because the field is relatively weak and none of them skated terribly well. The truth is, despite making only minor errors, his SP score is quite low compared to some other top men he is expected to compete against for World / Olympic podium. To me, this means this program is insufficient or to put it plainly, inadequate. Then again, Jeremy may just need a little more consistency to regain his confidence and command. Doing less is sometimes more in the long run.

  5. #65
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    994
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    81. I think [Jeremy] had a problem on a spin? Anyway, it seems a bit low
    Yes, I was expecting slightly higher: 82 or 83, but he'll take it. He could have had stronger spins, but again he pulled it out.
    Last edited by Art&Sport; 11-16-2012 at 12:26 PM.

  6. #66
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,188
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirunna View Post
    I don't see any merits in going for a quad which the skater doesn't master and almost always takes a fall(Verner, Amodio for example).
    ... or Evan. We have already been there, in a quadless era of Vancouver.

  7. #67
    Custom Title LRK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,876
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    You could look at the handle and guess who would drag PC into a thread where he is not even competing...the best thing is just to scroll down and ignore.
    Who? Where? I haven't seen anybody drag "PC" - I presume you mean "Patrick Chan"? - into the discussion -well, unless you just did. I've gone back and looked, and really... I can't find anything...

  8. #68
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3,008
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    To me, this means this program is insufficient or to put it plainly, inadequate. Then again, Jeremy may just need a little more consistency to regain his confidence and command. Doing less is sometimes more in the long run.
    Jeremy's both programs this year are inadequate in choreography, IMO, and not up to his usual standard. So this no fall SP is quite good from him. I'm glad he didn't continue to change his quad jumping entry and try a quad in SP because he is just not able to have a quad in SP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Newsflash: PCS are to some extent subjective, and sometimes skaters one dislikes will get what will seem like a too-high score. Deal with it or go watch a ski event.
    What a double standard!
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 11-16-2012 at 12:20 PM.

  9. #69
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Toronto, On
    Posts
    1,799
    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Why no need. No it wasn't okay. That's why skating safe policy is a dangerous thing. Will move around ....

    I disagree. Until the quad is a mandatory element, nothing is wrong with a quadless winner. I prefer a winner who skates clean as opposed to a guy who wins after he wiped out the ice with his rear end following his quad attempt and defeating skaters who put out a clean program.
    What is wrong IMO to give too much credit for an unsuccessful quad attempt.

  10. #70
    Custom Title LRK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,876
    The thing, though, is... Jeremy might not have needed the quad in the SP here - however he will need it later to be competitive. And as far as I've seen, the quad is not something you can take out and put in at will. If you want it to be reasonably consitent. And it's such a hard element, that, to put it in is a big deal, and liable to make the skater nervous... I think you see where I'm going with this? Is it a good thing for Jeremy to have something like that, later, to make him EXTRA nervous... ?

  11. #71
    skating philosopher
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    The land of Agent Dale Cooper
    Posts
    8,227
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    It worked here because the field is relatively weak and none of them skated terribly well. The truth is, despite making only minor errors, his SP score is quite low compared to some other top men he is expected to compete against for World / Olympic podium. To me, this means this program is insufficient or to put it plainly, inadequate. Then again, Jeremy may just need a little more consistency to regain his confidence and command. Doing less is sometimes more in the long run.
    SP Scores 75+ so far this season
    Yuzuru Hanyu 95.07 (51.71; 43.36) (SA)
    Javier Fernandez 85.87 (46.41; 39.46) (SC)
    Patrick Chan 85.44 (41.62; 43.82) (COR)
    Takahito Kozuka 85.32 (45.57;39.75) (SA)
    Daisuke Takahashi 84.79 (41.90; 42.89) (COC)
    Tatsuki Machida 83.78 (44.16; 39.32) (COC)
    Patrick Chan 82.52 (39.81;42.71) (SC)
    Nobunari Oda 82.14 (44.61; 37.53) (SC)
    --------------------------median
    Jeremy Abbott 81.18 (40.35; 40.83) (TEB)
    Jeremy Abbott 77.71 (37.81; 40.90) (SA)
    Konstantin Menshov 76.73 (42.51; 34.22) (COR)
    Takahiko Kozuka 76.34 (37.99; 38.35) (COR)
    Tatsuki Macida 75.78 (38.65; 37.13)(SA)
    Takahito Mura 76.65 (41.15; 35.50) TEB
    Brian Joubert 75.46 (38.73; 36.73)
    Denis Ten 75.26 (40.22; 36.04) (SC)


    TES:
    Yuzuru Hanyu 51.71 (SA)
    Javier Fernandez 46.41 (SC)
    Takahito Kozuka 45.57 (SA)
    Nobunari Oda 44.61 (SC)
    Tatsuki Machida 44.16 (COC)
    Konstantin Menshov 42.81 (COR)
    Daisuke Takahashi 41.90 (COC)
    Patrick Chan 41.62 (COR)
    --------------------------median
    Takahito Mura 41.15 (TEB)
    Jeremy Abbott 40.35 (TEB)
    Denis Ten 40.22 (SC)
    Patrick Chan 39.81 (SC)
    Brian Joubert 38.73(TEB)
    Tatsuki Machida 38.65 (SA)
    Takahiko Kozuka 37.99 (COR)
    Jeremy Abbott 37.81 (SA)

    PCS
    Patrick Chan 43.82 (COR)
    Yuzuru Hanyu 43.36 (SA)
    Daisuke Takahashi 42.89 (COC)
    Patrick Chan 42.71 (SC)
    Jeremy Abbott 40.90 (SA)
    Jeremy Abbott 40.83 (TEB)
    Takahito Kozuka 39.75 (SA)
    Javier Fernandez 39.46 (SC)
    ------------------------------ median
    Tatsuki Machida 39.32 (COC)
    Takahiko Kozuka 38.35 (COR)
    Nobunari Oda 37.53 (SC)
    Tatsuki Macida 37.13 (SA)
    Brian Joubert 36.73 (TEB)
    Denis Ten 36.04 (SC)
    Takahito Mura 35.50 (TEB)
    Konstantin Menshov 34.22 (COR)

    Just thought some data was some good food for thought. So yes, Jeremy, even with strong PCS, is actually below the median as far as top scores among all the men competing so far on the GP.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 11-16-2012 at 01:02 PM.

  12. #72
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    994
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    It worked here because the field is relatively weak and none of them skated terribly well. The truth is, despite making only minor errors, his SP score is quite low compared to some other top men he is expected to compete against for World / Olympic podium. To me, this means this program is insufficient or to put it plainly, inadequate. Then again, Jeremy may just need a little more consistency to regain his confidence and command. Doing less is sometimes more in the long run.
    I disagree wallylutz, that Jeremy's program "is inadequate." It's a solid program, but he did have a bit of traveling and slowness on some of his spins (I think from nerves). Other than that, the speed and choreography, as well as the interpretation is excellent. It's one of the better sps this season, IMO. Sure if Hanyu, Fernandez, Kozuka, Chan and Dai perform all their jumps well, they are certain to be scored higher if Jeremy doesn't include a quad in his sp, but I think Jeremy's sp and especially his gorgeous fp are very competitive with these guys. I don't think Dai has stellar programs choreographically this season, unfortunately. IMO, it will come down to Jeremy performing technically well along with showing off his great artistry. Jeremy won't have enough points even should he win gold here to make it to GPF. So, I hope he does cop the gold here and goes home in a strong frame of mind to do great things at Nationals and Worlds (fingers-crossed he makes the World team).

    If Chan does everything well, he has very competitive programs artistically this season, so that will likely keep Chan on the top at GPF and possibly Worlds, unless Fernandez continues to build his presentation skills, stays strong on technique and pulls another fast one against Chan at GPF. Japan Nationals will be a slugfest, but I'm thinking Hanyu, Kozuka and Dai might prevail. I think Hanyu is loved by ISU judges, but he still needs to build maturity and endurance. Kozuka is a strong skater, but I don't think he's a better skater than Jeremy Abbott (despite SA results). Dai doesn't have absolutely great programs this season, and even when he had them last season, the judges were reluctant to reward Dai, plus Dai has shown some vulnerability technically in his last GP. So, once again, I think Jeremy's sp is competitive with the top guys (maybe some think it's a weak program because the music and stylistic approach are not classical, but that shouldn't be the determining factor, IMO). Of course, Jeremy doesn't always get the reputation points because he needs to consistently prove he can do his best under pressure, and he needs a more consistent quad.

  13. #73
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Just thought some data was some good food for thought. So yes, Jeremy, even with strong PCS, is actually below the median as far as top scores among all the men competing so far on the GP.
    Thanks for the hard work and a good job in showing us the numbers. Always appreciate when you put the stats in perspective.

  14. #74
    just call me K or Art jockey
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by herios View Post
    I prefer a winner who skates clean as opposed to a guy who wins after he wiped out the ice with his rear end following his quad attempt and defeating skaters who put out a clean program.
    What is wrong IMO to give too much credit for an unsuccessful quad attempt.
    ^This. What they should have done is rewarding well executed quads more instead of lowering the penality on failed quads. I don't wanna see skaters pick up lots of base value on rotated falls. I like good quads but I also like quality skating. I hope Jeremy pulls of a win here, with or without quad.

  15. #75
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Japan
    Posts
    2,188
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    TES:
    Takahito Mura 38.73 (TEB)
    It's Brian's TES. Mura got 41.15.

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •