2012 TEB Ladies Short Program SP

[avalyn]

The only thing that really bucks me: Liza's PCS lower than Julia's?!
Damn it, why didn't I go to TEB - I could have thrown old tomatos at those blind jugdes for underscoring Liza again! She's such a musicial skater, so much expression. Kind of reminds me of Akiko always being underscored - maybe most of the jugdes don't have any feel for music themselves

I'm glad others think so, I was really impressed with Elizaveta's expression. Tangos seem really popular in figure skating these days, but not everyone can pull them off as good as that, interpreting every part of the music and executing the choreography with such force and intensity. I don't like Julia's style as much... raising the leg to accentuate a part of the music can be done well, like the way Michelle Kwan did in Salome and Lyra Angelica comes to mind, but Julia doesn't come across as musical or expressive when she does it, just showing off flexibility. But it's difficult, so I guess points are deserved for difficult transitions, like someone said earlier in the thread...

[Ginask8s]

Was she practicing 3/3 in the practices? Maybe she can't do one clean.

[Mrs. P]

Was she practicing 3/3 in the practices? Maybe she can't do one clean.

Moonlightskater, who was at SA and attending the practices, noted this in one of the SA threads:

Wagner: She takes the ice as though she is telling it who is boss. Her scores were very deserved as she gave a command performance. The early season showed in a bit of lean in her final few jumps of the long, but she gives the impression that she knows she is going to land those jumps before she even skates into them. One two foot in the short program. She practiced a lot of triple-triples with great consistency, and I believe I saw a few 2A-3T combos in practice as well. She looks like she's ready to really make an impact on the standings. Very expressive in both of her programs.

So I don't think it's not a matter of not being able to do them, but is part of a shrewd training/competition strategy.

[blue dog]

I don't like Lipnitskaya's bendy moves, or her double axel. A lot of her bendy moves are skated on a flat, rather than an edge, and her double axel technique is very reminiscent of Tara Lipinski or Tanja Szewczenko. She doesn't do much of a step-up into the double axel.

[rosacotton]

Lovely program by Ashley.

[jenaj]

Lovely program by Ashley.

I agree. It was mature and beautifully choreographed. Ashley has really improved so much--it is wonderful to see. I love her competitive fire, too. And that is coming from someone who previously thought she was ungainly and boring.

I would like to see Julia's program, but can't find it yet. I don't like to comment before seeing it, but I am kind of dismayed that Julia seems to be the next big thing in skating. Does a skater have to be a contortionist now to win?

[R.D.]

If Wagner were to beat a clean Lipnitskaya in the LP, it would be another scandal of Osmond proportions

Ha! Gotta love it.

But - I don't agree. Lipnitskaya wows with the jumps and contortionist positions but is otherwise quite forgettable.

Wagner was solid, if conservative (not attempting the 3-3). But I bet a solid SP is more important to her at this point in the season. Man, what a difference one year makes.

[DannyCurry]

Just my 2 cents about today's ladies SP

Overall a good event. Nice to see many 3-3, though mainly 3t-3t.

Lipnitskaia: Amazing 3-3, considering her condition. Her bendy moves are of no appeal to me, but I do find them impressive. She does seem to be a robot, though.

Wagner: I don't like her much so what is there to say apart from « nice 3 loop ». It was actually the 1st time that I saw her Red Violin SP. Horrible music cuts. This has to be the worst program I've seen on that wonderful theme.

Tuktamysheva: Really enjoyed her SP, even if Piazzolla is overused. Too bad about the step out on the combo. Her smile on the k&c looks genuine, unlike Ashley's.

Meite: Prefered her Forrest Gump SP. She should switch to a new choreographer because many of her hands moves don't go well with Feeling Good. Still, a strong program, and boy, can she jump. That 3toe-3toe was HUGE!

Korobeynikova: Guess I haven't followed skating much these past 4 years because I can't recall having seen that Russian girl. A solid program for her, with a lovely 3-3.

Glebova: Apart from her 3-3, I'll say it was good to see her land her 3(f)lutz because she couldn't hit one cleanly in the warm-up (or did I miss it?)

Gao: What a shame for the mistake on the 3 toe. The girl is becoming truly graceful. I think that her music has potential for a great SP, if only she could hit all the elements..

Marrocco: Kudos for landing all her jumps, but can someone please get her a new outfit?

Helgesson: Another stupid comment but...her skates are distractingly ugly. What's the point of having such unaesthetic boots and blades if they can't help you land the jumps?!! Okay, I'm just kidding, here

McCorkell: She didn't look that bad in the warm-up. Silly question: is she too tall to switch to pairs with her husband? Have they ever had a pairs tryout together?

Hope we'll see many great skates from the ladies tomorrow!!

[R.D.]

Ashley did great, but I'm disappointed she didn't try the 3-3. You have to do those combos to get them clean - when is she going to do them? Nationals or worlds are rather bad ideas, so only GPF and 4CC left. And both are still way more important than TEB. She didn't have much to lose, this field isn't that deep, and even a 4th place should be enough for her. Plus, if she'd messed up the SP, she could have climbed up places with a great LP easily. And if any lady currently has the strength to fight back in her LP, it's Ashley. It's great she went clean, but it looks like a missed opportunity for me.

I also would have liked to see a 3-3 or at least an attempt at one. You have to get comfortable doing it in competition or you get what happened at worlds last year.

But I guess I can see why she didn't. Especially for Wagner, who is still seemingly fighting her short program demon, probably better to go clean with a solid, conservative skate than to go for it and mess up. As Nicks is her coach I'm not surprised at all if this is all strategic planning.

[Mrs. P]

I also would have liked to see a 3-3 or at least an attempt at one. You have to get comfortable doing it in competition or you get what happened at worlds last year.

But I guess I can see why she didn't. Especially for Wagner, who is still seemingly fighting her short program demon, probably better to go clean with a solid, conservative skate than to go for it and mess up. As Nicks is her coach I'm not surprised at all if this is all strategic planning.

I remember Nicks saying that he wanted Ashley to hit the 3-3 about 80 percent in practice before they would introduce it in competition. I'm not worried about the lack of a 3-3 yet.

What happened at Worlds had less to do with a 3-3 and more with competition nerves, me thinks. Hence it makes sense to build Ashley's competitive mettle by skating SPs clean on a consistent basis.

[tulosai]

McCorkell: She didn't look that bad in the warm-up. Silly question: is she too tall to switch to pairs with her husband? Have they ever had a pairs tryout together?

I think her body type is not conducive to pairs either way but she is 5 foot 6 inches and a half; he is five foot nine and a half. The height difference between them is only 3 inches, it would never work.

That said, it's actually a pet peeve of mine when people suggest struggling singles skaters just turn to pairs, as though pairs is easy and a second rate discipline. Have either she or her husband ever skated pairs? It is HARD. It's not something she'd likely pick up easily at the age of 26. It's true that for younger skaters that are weak jumpers, pairs can offer an answer (Gordeeva was actually put into pairs with Grinkov for this very reason) but that does not mean pairs is easier or that it is something 'easier' for people who struggle with singles skating.

I'm not meaning to attack you personally, but suggestions like this annoy me on some level.

[Mrs. P]

I think her body type is not conducive to pairs either way but she is 5 foot 6 inches and a half; he is five foot nine and a half. The height difference between them is only 3 inches, it would never work.

That said, it's actually a pet peeve of mine when people suggest struggling singles skaters just turn to pairs, as though pairs is easy and a second rate discipline. Have either she or her husband ever skated pairs? It is HARD. It's not something she'd likely pick up easily at the age of 26. It's true that for younger skaters that are weak jumpers, pairs can offer an answer (Gordeeva was actually put into pairs with Grinkov for this very reason) but that does not mean pairs is easier or that it is something 'easier' for people who struggle with singles skating.

I'm not meaning to attack you personally, but suggestions like this annoy me on some level.

To be fair, KVDP has been on the record saying that he wanted to tried pairs, so there is some context to the question. And hey, they're married, so why not? (Well I say that rhetorically; I agree the height thing makes it impossible).

[DannyCurry]

I'm not meaning to attack you personally, but suggestions like this annoy me on some level.

Understandably, but you realize that this wasn't a real suggestion, don't you? Still, IIRC, they skated together in some shows but don't know if they tried some pairs elements.

And well, if some random football player can pick up a 'decent' level of pairs skating, why not a single skater? Plus, hard does not equal impossible. So yeah, get annoyed.

[bixby]

Ashley's WOW factor was through the roof! Very mature, clean and polished. So solid, can't wait to see it on NBC. Hope they would do recap of the short.

It will be an interesting long tomorrow. Hope Christina can rebound. What a lovely and sophisticated short program even with the mistake...

[silverlake22]

I think her body type is not conducive to pairs either way but she is 5 foot 6 inches and a half; he is five foot nine and a half. The height difference between them is only 3 inches, it would never work.

That said, it's actually a pet peeve of mine when people suggest struggling singles skaters just turn to pairs, as though pairs is easy and a second rate discipline. Have either she or her husband ever skated pairs? It is HARD. It's not something she'd likely pick up easily at the age of 26. It's true that for younger skaters that are weak jumpers, pairs can offer an answer (Gordeeva was actually put into pairs with Grinkov for this very reason) but that does not mean pairs is easier or that it is something 'easier' for people who struggle with singles skating.

I'm not meaning to attack you personally, but suggestions like this annoy me on some level.

Pairs is hard but some skaters who may struggle with jumps might have other attributes of their skating such as good flexibility, balance, posture, the ability to "save" jump landings, small size, etc. that would suggest pairs could be a discipline in which they would excel in, NOT because it's easy but because consistency on the difficult jumps is not necessary to do well in pairs while all the other attributes I mentioned could be very valuable and more readily showcased in pairs.

Jenna I don't think would do well in pairs, and obviously she is tall and Kevin only slightly taller, so it wouldn't work. But there are a lot of singles skaters who probably would do well in pairs and I don't think it's an issue to mention it, and not all those skaters struggle with jumps either.