I'm very happy for Mura and wanted Joubert to be in 3rd, but congratulations to all the medalists!!
I was so hoping you'd like it! And I do think he was bit undermarked on PCS, though not by too much, it was not a good performance; he was visibly tired pretty much the entire way through. Amodio's overmarking, in both parts of the competition, worries me, as it is likely to continue - which means that 1. nothing will push Amodio to get good programs and 2. you might have to utter those words again, and more than onceBrian Joubert: Joubert was robbed at TEB. I will never utter those words again, because it is a freak occurrence (plus, he likely only has one more TEB. Whoa. The retirements after Sochi are really gonna be huge). I hope he skate this program to its potential because it could be a career best LP for him (I won’t even mind if he keeps it for two years, likely going to be necessary imo). I think his PCS was largely fair (and given how many gifts he’s received in the past, it’s hard to say he was undermarked), but it was Amodio’s overmaking that was his undoing.
Machida didnt do any quads this season and he has done fine Abbott pops a lot of jumps and was supremely hurt by his axel pops. His pcs should more than compensate for failing on a quad jump but he doubles and single things and his spins are great they are just no cop level 4 so Abbott really needs to work on ugly spins which is what ijs requires - well some people can make them loom good sometimes but they can be really long and boring things that destroy the spins. But no pops and level 4 spins even with quad failure.
I would like some people to do 6.0 programs and have elements be called invalid or b level spins or violate rules on jumps so people can get a feel for 6.0 again.
Last edited by gmyers; 11-18-2012 at 01:10 AM.
I LOVE Joubert's program. Hope he uses it for the Olympics. I do agree with this 4th place finish here, though. The technical content just wasn't there today. No Quad, one Triple Axel, and a lack of combinations...
Men's Long program musings:
Mura: Haven't seen him before - liked his program - the Japanese men have great skating technique.
Abbott: Beautiful program - love everything about his lyrical skating & artistry. Too bad he suffers from nerves or whatever in competition. Still, an improvement - 2nd is great. Like how he fought all the way through for his jumps.
Amodio: Not impressed with the structure of his program; lots of "stationery" and two-footed skating with the second half of his program all jumps. He does have a dance background but all I saw was flailing arms & not much artistry.
Joubert: He's an icon of his era but he is just so 6.0 -- a bygone era that will not return. I know he's a great jumper but once his jumps go there's no discernible choreography to hold the program together.
Song: Pleasantly surprised - with a well constructed program & connection to the music. Room for improvement of course but lots of potential.
Verner: Too bad. He used to be so much fun to watch - though he was going places.
Not in response to you, but I am just at a loss as to how anyone can look at Joubert's LP and say it's a rehash of his past stuff or an empty 6.0 program. It's as though people are so conditioned to think of Joubert's skating that way that they aren't receptive to consider evidence to the contrary (rather like "Kozuka always looks down and doesn't relate to the audience" or "Kostner wins with messy/empty skates" regardless of what they actually do). I am really happy to see some more positive responses alongside the usual stuff.
Abbott cannot simply "add" a 3F+2A SEQ or a 3F+2T+2Lo combo because he already has a flip jump in his program, together with two 3As and two 3Lz's. If he dropped the first 3F+2T and put in a 3F+2T+3Lo instead he would net only the extra 2Lo. Yes, he could backload the program (stamina permitting), but that doesn't solve the Zayak problems. If you try writing down all 8 jumping passes, the difficulty becomes apparent.
3A, 3A+2T, 3Lz, 3Lz+3T, 3F+2T+2Lo, 3Lo, 3S, 8th pass?
If you want to repeat your two highest-scoring jumps, the triple Axel and the triple Lutz, that automatically uses up two of your three combos/sequences. You only have one left. You could cut the flip combo back to a solo flip and do 2A+2A SEQ for the 8th pass. But this actually loses 1.12 in base value.
Or you do solo flip then try something like 3Lo + 1/2 Lo + 3S. Now you have two extra passes. But you have to fill them with is 2A and another 2A.
This is the same reason why skaters don't try triple-triple-triple combos. Big points for that one pass, but you give them back when you run out of legal triples at the end.
Last edited by Jaana; 11-18-2012 at 01:37 PM.
I see you chose to address a specific point I made, but it kind of proves what I was saying yesterday: every program Joubert does or has done seems to elicit the same reaction from you; you repeat "he was overscored on PCS, he has 6.0 programs". This, regardless of the PCS he receives (it wasn't high yesterday by any means) and regardless of the program content. There are never any positives. Would you be able to say something nice about him or Plushenko on this thread?
Since you say you do watch Joubert skate, I can't help but wonder if you do so with certain preconceptions as to what his skating and programs are like, and are unwilling or unable to consider the possibility that these do not always apply. Or maybe you like a very specific range of programs, where you can see each bullet point being checked off. I honestly don't know, but whatever works for you; it is just skating, after all, and there's a limit to how much cognitive effort any of us will be willing to put into it. It's hard for me to deal with my own confirmation bias at times, too.
It would be nice, however, if you at least varied your comments on occasion to liven things up a bit.
I've watched this stuff on Eurosport before, when I had speakers in my computer. Now I don't. Phooey!
Had it started with the French (Les Misérables is a French novel after all) and ended with the Japanese, the message conveyed through that performance would have been totally different, that is, the cultural spread from French to various cultures, even to Japanese, the least expected candidate.
Anyway, I didn't get a good feeling after watching that performance, another ethnocentric performance that they called "international"--that's what I thought.
Last edited by skatinginbc; 11-18-2012 at 05:10 PM.