2012 TEB Ladies Long Program Lp | Page 11 | Golden Skate

2012 TEB Ladies Long Program Lp

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
LADIES FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT

1. Ashley WAGNER (USA) - 190.63 Free Skate
2. Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA (RUS) - 179.62 Free Skate
3. Julia LIPNITSKAYA (RUS) - 179.31 Free Skate
4. Christina GAO (USA) - 164.71 Free Skate
5. Mae Berenice MEITE (FRA) - 157.58 Free Skate
6. Polina KOROBEYNIKOVA (RUS) - 144.82 Free Skate
7. Elena GLEBOVA (EST) - 140.86 Free Skate
8. Jenna MCCORKELL (GBR) - 135.40 Free Skate
9. Joshi HELGESSON (SWE) - 133.77 Free Skate
10. Lena MARROCCO (FRA) - 132.44 Free Skate
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
Russian forumers say that Ashley is truely the queen of skating but everybody agree that her pcs are TOO high. And Liza's jumps are better than Ashley...Liza got some minuses for her loop..
I tend to agree on that. Ashley is 100000000000% a winner but not with such a huge score without 3-3 AND 2-3

I don't agree that her PCS are too high...:popcorn:

Frankly, I'm hard pressed to think of a single ladies skater I dislike as much as some people here seem to dislike Ashley and//or Julia. Of course I love both of them so....:eek::
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
Btw Ashley was so overscored on the PCS ....and you said about Kiira being overscored...no way I agree,great performance but 65 almost ,way too much!i won't gave her more than 62...even Caro did't receive that much in the GP last year and you can't compare her with Ashley...sorry but i don't agree with her PCS score.

True, but Carolina didn't have the amount of jumps Ashley did nor did she have the transitions into and out of her jumps. It's also important to remember that scoring is relative to the competition.

I think Ashley's PCS are high but given the speed she skates with, ease across the ice and sureness of movement (SS), the difficult transitions into and out of her elements (TR), the gorgeous choreography that highlights the music (CH), her attention to the music and portrayal of the character (IN) and the fact that she executed all of her elements and performed with energy and excitement (PE), I'd say those marks are justified. :)

I agree 100% the pressure is probably paying a part but part of why I think it was also her ankle is that her jumps did get markedly worse as the program went on, ending with a double... loop I think? They started cleaner even with the mistake on the second combo and looked more labored at the end.

Definitely a possibility. But for my argument of it being nerves, I'd say that oftentimes after one mistake you get even more nervous b/c you're thinking about it which knocks your timing off even more and can result in your jumps getting worse and worse as the program goes on. Essentially, it's that snowball effect: one mistake leads to another and another. I guess we'll have to wait for some post-competition interviews to see if the injury was the main reason behind it...
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Im talking about their results in GP, Sotnikova has never skated a clean program since JGP and Sotnikova has never made the GP Final
that does suggest she has more problems than the 2 mentioned, that is another whole topic not fit on this thread

And how old is Sotnikova? What makes you think she's supposed to immediately and automatically be successful in the senior ranks? These girls are not robots exactly. They are all different skaters and different people who will progress at their own rate. Figure skating is not easy, btw! The fact that Sotnikova has not made GP final and has problems with competing successfully under pressure does not mean she has "mental and psychological issues." That's a pretty strong conclusion, and not really a topic fit for any thread, IMO.
 

raress

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
:laugh: Keep being a detractor ... Ashley will keep on skating and shining brightly, and I will keep on sighing and smiling.

I really enjoy Caro too, but Caro is not exactly landing all of the basic triple jumps and skating 6 triple programs consistenly. However, if Caro and Yu Na go to Worlds it will be really interesting to see how things turn out. I'm all for interesting and exciting battles in skating where everyone performs to their best level. :)

ETA:
Maybe you can't compare Ashley with Carolina, but the judges will certainly be comparing them at Worlds if Caro does make good on her desire to come back.
I agree Ashley is rock solid on jumps but beside that I don't see her being so gracious and having so hard transitions and ice coverage as others top skater do,she gave it all and I like her she my favorite american beside Gracie but PCS so high this early sorry I don't get it.Maybe Caro doesn't have the strong content in jumps as Ashley but in terms of skating skills I'm sorry Asley needs some development there,and I wasn't talking about jumps here anyway.
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
I don't think we are that far off in our opinions. I feel Liza seems to show a bit more maturity, but she's always seemed to look older than she is. But I don't think e.g., that her flirtiness and seemingly mature movements actually have a great deal of depth.

Don't quite understand what you mean here by "seemingly mature" movements. Liza's flirtatiousness and fire are exactly what her music calls for. Her projection, connection to the audience, and interpretation of the music were excellent.

A bit more studied than actually expressive of mature emotion which can only come with growth and experience, IMO. And, at this stage, IMO, Christina Gao is far and away superior in her subtlety of expression and her elegance on the ice than both Julia and Liza. This is really a Christina Gao I've never seen before. I think the combination of Gao's growth as a person and a skater, and her moving to new coaches has really brought out more of who she is on the ice.

Are you referring to Christina Gao in her SP or FS? I can't agree that Christina is "far and away superior" to Liza in terms of expression, particularly in her FS. Christina really feels the music very well in her SP, but her FS is a total mismatch for her artistic abilities. She doesn't express the fire, fierceness of her FS music at all (versus Liza who succeeded brilliantly with her FS music). Nailing all your jumps is great, but I can see why she got lower PCS than the medalists. As for Julia, she's got a long way to go in terms of music interpretation, but she does have an elegant look on the ice with those lines and flexibility and her movements are graceful. Is artistry all about lines and flexibility? No, but it certainly does help.

I think your probably right. My view is she will probably deploy the 3x3 combination at the Four Continents (its not worth risking it at the Grand Prix final or Nationals). If she can then get herself entered into an additional competition between then and Worlds, that would set her up nicely for Worlds

This is what Ashley did last season. She got the 3/3 ratified in the SP at 2012 4CCs (with some negative GOE thrown in), did not go for the 2A/3T in the FS. At Worlds, she messed up the 3F and couldn't go for the 3/3 in the SP; she went for the 2A/3T in the FS and got a UR call.

However, with more confidence and a season of great performances under her belt, I could definitely see her pulling it off at Worlds next time. She's definitely a medal contender already; with a 3/3 in the SP and 2A/3T in the FS, she could challenge for the top spot. It's certainly possible.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Russian forumers say that Ashley is truely the queen of skating but everybody agree that her pcs are TOO high. And Liza's jumps are better than Ashley...Liza got some minuses for her loop..
I tend to agree on that. Ashley is 100000000000% a winner but not with such a huge score without 3-3 AND 2-3

any update on Julia's ankle, hope she feels better soon

some videos are up:

Ashley http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgzNQmR0Hus&feature=plcp

Liza http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq6_Sl1OPqk&feature=plcp, I hate her dress, it makes her look so bloated

Julia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q5XWt6pvb8&feature=plcp
 
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koatcue

Medalist
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Country
Russia
I don't agree that her PCS are too high...:popcorn:

Frankly, I'm hard pressed to think of a single ladies skater I dislike as much as some people here seem to dislike Ashley and//or Julia. Of course I love both of them so....:eek::

She is a real winner but her scores leave no place for competition...Here is a 2013 world champ. I mean why to make different 3-3s when people win with huge score without them..And Liza performed. She showed a mature skating:eek:hwell:
 

jaylee

Medalist
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
I agree Ashley is rock solid on jumps but beside that I don't see her being so gracious and having so hard transitions and ice coverage as others top skater do,she gave it all and I like her she my favorite american beside Gracie but PCS so high this early sorry I don't get it.Maybe Caro doesn't have the strong content in jumps as Ashley but in terms of skating skills I'm sorry Asley needs some development there,and I wasn't talking about jumps here anyway.

Ashley's transitions are quite good; did you see the spread eagle into the 3Loop? Her ice coverage and skating skills are fine as well. Not Carolina Kostner-level, but then again who is (other than Carolina Kostner...).
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
True, but Carolina didn't have the amount of jumps Ashley did nor did she have the transitions into and out of her jumps. It's also important to remember that scoring is relative to the competition.

I think Ashley's PCS are high but given the speed she skates with, ease across the ice and sureness of movement (SS), the difficult transitions into and out of her elements (TR), the gorgeous choreography that highlights the music (CH), her attention to the music and portrayal of the character (IN) and the fact that she executed all of her elements and performed with energy and excitement (PE), I'd say those marks are justified. :)

...

I absolutely agree with you and thanks for expressing it so well!

It seems to me that all of the naysaying and nitpicking that is cropping up about Ashley's skating is because she's thrown down the gauntlet and is prepared to battle. Ashley's got all the goods too, no matter how many people don't like her skating nor how much they would like to dismiss her. Ashley's already been through the fire, and she's come through determined and she's as honed and sparkling as a diamond.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Good for Liza finally making it back. It would be nice for her if this is a new beginning. I hope Adelina will eventually get it because I would love for these two to make it to the Olympics. Anyhoo I knew Ashley would probably prevail in the long and I agree she should have the higher pcs but not that high.
 

raress

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Liza's lutz in the combination was enormous both in length and height such and amazing technique...I think she may be the only hope for Russia next year...along with Lipniskaya!:)
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
LADIES FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT (Updated)

1. Ashley WAGNER (USA) - 190.63 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
2. Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA (RUS) - 179.62 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
3. Julia LIPNITSKAYA (RUS) - 179.31 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
4. Christina GAO (USA) - 164.71 Free Skate
5. Mae Berenice MEITE (FRA) - 157.58 Free Skate
6. Polina KOROBEYNIKOVA (RUS) - 144.82 Free Skate
7. Elena GLEBOVA (EST) - 140.86 Free Skate
8. Jenna MCCORKELL (GBR) - 135.40 Free Skate
9. Joshi HELGESSON (SWE) - 133.77 Free Skate
10. Lena MARROCCO (FRA) - 132.44 Free Skate
 
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sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Liza's lutz in the combination was enormous both in length and height such and amazing technique...I think she may be the only hope for Russia next year...along with Lipniskaya!:)

Russia might get 2 spots only for women Olympics , the 2013 Worlds will be tough . so far only Liza and Julia have showed much promise and can score high
Alena is a question mark and Adelina is a headcase
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
She is a real winner but her scores leave no place for competition...Here is a 2013 world champ. I mean why to make different 3-3s when people win with huge score without them..And Liza performed. She showed a mature skating:eek:hwell:

Are you saying that Ashley's scores "leave no place for competition." I disagree. Weren't you around when Yu Na was skating. It was Yu Na's high scores that set the high mark in ladies' competition. So there is still lots of room. I don't like the CoP scoring system, but the way it's structured, Ashley's marks are within reason, and more than that, clearly deserved.

Don't quite understand what you mean here by "seemingly mature" movements. Liza's flirtatiousness and fire are exactly what her music calls for. Her projection, connection to the audience, and interpretation of the music were excellent.

Are you referring to Christina Gao in her SP or FS? I can't agree that Christina is "far and away superior" to Liza in terms of expression, particularly in her FS. Christina really feels the music very well in her SP, but her FS is a total mismatch for her artistic abilities. She doesn't express the fire, fierceness of her FS music at all (versus Liza who succeeded brilliantly with her FS music). Nailing all your jumps is great, but I can see why she got lower PCS than the medalists. As for Julia, she's got a long way to go in terms of music interpretation, but she does have an elegant look on the ice with those lines and flexibility and her movements are graceful. Is artistry all about lines and flexibility? No, but it certainly does help.


...

You see it differently re Liza and Christina. My preference is Christina with the way she's been skating overall this season so far including her performances at SA and TEB. She faltered a bit in the sp at TEB, but I still find Christina more engaging to watch than I do Liza. As I said, I feel more warmth from Christina than I do from Liza. That's my personal perception and preference, and it's subjective.

I characterized Liza's moves as "seemingly mature" because she's still very young and I don't buy the flirtiness. It's studied because she has no mature experience behind it, so it lacks depth and meaning for me. Christina is also young, but instead of flirtiness, I think Christina is simply exhibiting a greater sense of command with the lyrical gracefulness she always possessed but was a bit too gawky and immature in previous seasons to fully express. Now, Christina has more control over her coltishly long legs and arms. The difference IMO between Christina and Liza (because they are both still young and have a lot more developing to do) is that Christina is not trying to flirt, she's only trying to express her inner joy and deep love for skating. I don't think Christina has more maturity than Liza -- they are different people and different skaters and they each have a great deal to offer. I just prefer the Christina I am seeing this season over both Julia and Liza. As Sandra Bezic said at SA, Christina has "subtlety" in her skating, and that is antithetical to "fire," so right now Christina may not be taken as seriously in the marks, plus the fact she hasn't shown this kind of skating prior to this season. I hope Christina decides to stick with skating for the long haul, despite the fact she's attending Harvard full time. That's what makes what she's accomplished so far this season very remarkable!

At this point, I even like Christina better than Gracie Gold in terms of grace and expressiveness, although Gracie has more height and strength on her jumps.
 
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raress

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Russia might get 2 spots only for women Olympics , the 2013 Worlds will be tough . so far only Liza and Julia have showed much promise and can score high
Alena is a question mark and Adelina is a headcase

I'm sure they'll get 3 with Liza and Adelina there and I don't see Adelina not making the olympic team, she's 3 times Russia's national champion and Putin's favorite..I have to say she has tons of talent (amazing spins and also skating skills) but in terms of jumps she still fails to deliver,such a same I miss Adelina from 2010 when she won every competition she took part in,such a consistency,still hope is there somewhere inside of her but she needs to bring it out.
 

raress

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Ashley's transitions are quite good; did you see the spread eagle into the 3Loop? Her ice coverage and skating skills are fine as well. Not Carolina Kostner-level, but then again who is (other than Carolina Kostner...).

Well you may be right ,now she's the best skater with Caro and Yu-na not competing ,mao's weak jumps(UR almost everything) and seeing Osmond with almost 60 and think they are fair...but the program need to get better ,and I don't see her receiving better at worlds anyway without 3-3 or 2a-3t.Anyway to me Liza was the highlight today(PCS should have been higher comparing her performance with Osmond's),and my heart goes with her.Congrats to all the medalists.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I'm sure they'll get 3 with Liza and Adelina there and I don't see Adelina not making the olympic team, she's 3 times Russia's national champion and Putin's favorite..I have to say she has tons of talent (amazing spins and also skating skills) but in terms of jumps she still fails to deliver,such a same I miss Adelina from 2010 when she won every competition she took part in,such a consistency,still hope is there somewhere inside of her but she needs to bring it out.

I understand Adelina is favored by her federation, but its time to stop this now, it has showed Liza and Julia are their best shots at the Olympics
I don't get how they are pushing her when she has failed in every competition since last season, imo its time they take Sotnikova in the back seat :disapp:
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
I'm sure they'll get 3 with Liza and Adelina there and I don't see Adelina not making the olympic team, she's 3 times Russia's national champion and Putin's favorite..I have to say she has tons of talent (amazing spins and also skating skills) but in terms of jumps she still fails to deliver,such a same I miss Adelina from 2010 when she won every competition she took part in,such a consistency,still hope is there somewhere inside of her but she needs to bring it out.

Wow, Putin's favorite ... and yet sky_fly20 is claiming Adelina has "psychological and mental issues." Those two claims are just not seeming to match up! Surely Putin would not extend "favorite" status to "a headcase."
 

raress

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Wow, Putin's favorite ... and yet sky_fly20 is claiming Adelina has "psychological and mental issues." Those two claims are just not seeming to match up! Surely Putin would not extend "favorite" status to "a headcase."

Yes she failed to deliver and maybe is a mental block but no doubt she's the most elegant from all and there is talent,maybe a coach change will be for her good. Lipniskya is very strong but who knows what will happen in 1 year...her jump technique is not that good tough,her upper body is very forward in the air and you saw her landings are very scratchy.
 
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