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Thread: 2012 TEB Ladies Long Program Lp

  1. #196
    Custom Title raress's Avatar
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    Btw Ashley was so overscored on the PCS ....and you said about Kiira being overscored...no way I agree,great performance but 65 almost ,way too much!i won't gave her more than 62...even Caro did't receive that much in the GP last year and you can't compare her with Ashley...sorry but i don't agree with her PCS score.

  2. #197
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post

    I say all that to say, yes the injury could have played a part...still, she hit her 3-3 in both programs so it can't have been hurting her that severely. To me, her sub-par performance can probably be attributed to pressure and nerves...
    I agree 100% the pressure is probably paying a part but part of why I think it was also her ankle is that her jumps did get markedly worse as the program went on, ending with a double... loop I think? They started cleaner even with the mistake on the second combo and looked more labored at the end.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by raress View Post
    Btw Ashley was so overscored on the PCS ....and you said about Kiira being overscored...no way I agree,great performance but 65 almost ,way too much!i won't gave her more than 62...even Caro did't receive that much in the GP last year and you can't compare her with Ashley...sorry but i don't agree with her PCS score.
    Keep being a detractor ... Ashley will keep on skating and shining brightly, and I will keep on sighing and smiling.

    I really enjoy Caro too, but Caro is not exactly landing all of the basic triple jumps and skating 6 triple programs consistenly. However, if Caro and Yu Na go to Worlds it will be really interesting to see how things turn out. I'm all for interesting and exciting battles in skating where everyone performs to their best level.

    ETA:
    Maybe you can't compare Ashley with Carolina, but the judges will certainly be comparing them at Worlds if Caro does make good on her desire to come back.
    Last edited by Art&Sport; 11-17-2012 at 03:55 PM.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I agree 100% the pressure is probably paying a part but part of why I think it was also her ankle is that her jumps did get markedly worse as the program went on, ending with a double... loop I think? They started cleaner even with the mistake on the second combo and looked more labored at the end.
    I'm more worried about her state of the injury, I hope its nothing serious and she didnt aggrevate it
    hope a 2-3 day rest it will be fully healed, I'd love to Julia in GPF, she hasn't peaked yet this season

  5. #200
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    Russian forumers say that Ashley is truely the queen of skating but everybody agree that her pcs are TOO high. And Liza's jumps are better than Ashley...Liza got some minuses for her loop..
    I tend to agree on that. Ashley is 100000000000% a winner but not with such a huge score without 3-3 AND 2-3

  6. #201
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    LADIES FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT

    1. Ashley WAGNER (USA) - 190.63 Free Skate
    2. Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA (RUS) - 179.62 Free Skate
    3. Julia LIPNITSKAYA (RUS) - 179.31 Free Skate
    4. Christina GAO (USA) - 164.71 Free Skate
    5. Mae Berenice MEITE (FRA) - 157.58 Free Skate
    6. Polina KOROBEYNIKOVA (RUS) - 144.82 Free Skate
    7. Elena GLEBOVA (EST) - 140.86 Free Skate
    8. Jenna MCCORKELL (GBR) - 135.40 Free Skate
    9. Joshi HELGESSON (SWE) - 133.77 Free Skate
    10. Lena MARROCCO (FRA) - 132.44 Free Skate

  7. #202
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koatcue View Post
    Russian forumers say that Ashley is truely the queen of skating but everybody agree that her pcs are TOO high. And Liza's jumps are better than Ashley...Liza got some minuses for her loop..
    I tend to agree on that. Ashley is 100000000000% a winner but not with such a huge score without 3-3 AND 2-3
    I don't agree that her PCS are too high...

    Frankly, I'm hard pressed to think of a single ladies skater I dislike as much as some people here seem to dislike Ashley and//or Julia. Of course I love both of them so....

  8. #203
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raress View Post
    Btw Ashley was so overscored on the PCS ....and you said about Kiira being overscored...no way I agree,great performance but 65 almost ,way too much!i won't gave her more than 62...even Caro did't receive that much in the GP last year and you can't compare her with Ashley...sorry but i don't agree with her PCS score.
    True, but Carolina didn't have the amount of jumps Ashley did nor did she have the transitions into and out of her jumps. It's also important to remember that scoring is relative to the competition.

    I think Ashley's PCS are high but given the speed she skates with, ease across the ice and sureness of movement (SS), the difficult transitions into and out of her elements (TR), the gorgeous choreography that highlights the music (CH), her attention to the music and portrayal of the character (IN) and the fact that she executed all of her elements and performed with energy and excitement (PE), I'd say those marks are justified.

    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I agree 100% the pressure is probably paying a part but part of why I think it was also her ankle is that her jumps did get markedly worse as the program went on, ending with a double... loop I think? They started cleaner even with the mistake on the second combo and looked more labored at the end.
    Definitely a possibility. But for my argument of it being nerves, I'd say that oftentimes after one mistake you get even more nervous b/c you're thinking about it which knocks your timing off even more and can result in your jumps getting worse and worse as the program goes on. Essentially, it's that snowball effect: one mistake leads to another and another. I guess we'll have to wait for some post-competition interviews to see if the injury was the main reason behind it...

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Im talking about their results in GP, Sotnikova has never skated a clean program since JGP and Sotnikova has never made the GP Final
    that does suggest she has more problems than the 2 mentioned, that is another whole topic not fit on this thread
    And how old is Sotnikova? What makes you think she's supposed to immediately and automatically be successful in the senior ranks? These girls are not robots exactly. They are all different skaters and different people who will progress at their own rate. Figure skating is not easy, btw! The fact that Sotnikova has not made GP final and has problems with competing successfully under pressure does not mean she has "mental and psychological issues." That's a pretty strong conclusion, and not really a topic fit for any thread, IMO.

  10. #205
    Custom Title raress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Keep being a detractor ... Ashley will keep on skating and shining brightly, and I will keep on sighing and smiling.

    I really enjoy Caro too, but Caro is not exactly landing all of the basic triple jumps and skating 6 triple programs consistenly. However, if Caro and Yu Na go to Worlds it will be really interesting to see how things turn out. I'm all for interesting and exciting battles in skating where everyone performs to their best level.

    ETA:
    Maybe you can't compare Ashley with Carolina, but the judges will certainly be comparing them at Worlds if Caro does make good on her desire to come back.
    I agree Ashley is rock solid on jumps but beside that I don't see her being so gracious and having so hard transitions and ice coverage as others top skater do,she gave it all and I like her she my favorite american beside Gracie but PCS so high this early sorry I don't get it.Maybe Caro doesn't have the strong content in jumps as Ashley but in terms of skating skills I'm sorry Asley needs some development there,and I wasn't talking about jumps here anyway.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    I don't think we are that far off in our opinions. I feel Liza seems to show a bit more maturity, but she's always seemed to look older than she is. But I don't think e.g., that her flirtiness and seemingly mature movements actually have a great deal of depth.
    Don't quite understand what you mean here by "seemingly mature" movements. Liza's flirtatiousness and fire are exactly what her music calls for. Her projection, connection to the audience, and interpretation of the music were excellent.

    A bit more studied than actually expressive of mature emotion which can only come with growth and experience, IMO. And, at this stage, IMO, Christina Gao is far and away superior in her subtlety of expression and her elegance on the ice than both Julia and Liza. This is really a Christina Gao I've never seen before. I think the combination of Gao's growth as a person and a skater, and her moving to new coaches has really brought out more of who she is on the ice.
    Are you referring to Christina Gao in her SP or FS? I can't agree that Christina is "far and away superior" to Liza in terms of expression, particularly in her FS. Christina really feels the music very well in her SP, but her FS is a total mismatch for her artistic abilities. She doesn't express the fire, fierceness of her FS music at all (versus Liza who succeeded brilliantly with her FS music). Nailing all your jumps is great, but I can see why she got lower PCS than the medalists. As for Julia, she's got a long way to go in terms of music interpretation, but she does have an elegant look on the ice with those lines and flexibility and her movements are graceful. Is artistry all about lines and flexibility? No, but it certainly does help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mao88 View Post
    I think your probably right. My view is she will probably deploy the 3x3 combination at the Four Continents (its not worth risking it at the Grand Prix final or Nationals). If she can then get herself entered into an additional competition between then and Worlds, that would set her up nicely for Worlds
    This is what Ashley did last season. She got the 3/3 ratified in the SP at 2012 4CCs (with some negative GOE thrown in), did not go for the 2A/3T in the FS. At Worlds, she messed up the 3F and couldn't go for the 3/3 in the SP; she went for the 2A/3T in the FS and got a UR call.

    However, with more confidence and a season of great performances under her belt, I could definitely see her pulling it off at Worlds next time. She's definitely a medal contender already; with a 3/3 in the SP and 2A/3T in the FS, she could challenge for the top spot. It's certainly possible.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by koatcue View Post
    Russian forumers say that Ashley is truely the queen of skating but everybody agree that her pcs are TOO high. And Liza's jumps are better than Ashley...Liza got some minuses for her loop..
    I tend to agree on that. Ashley is 100000000000% a winner but not with such a huge score without 3-3 AND 2-3
    any update on Julia's ankle, hope she feels better soon

    some videos are up:

    Ashley http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgzNQmR0Hus&feature=plcp

    Liza http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq6_Sl1OPqk&feature=plcp, I hate her dress, it makes her look so bloated

    Julia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q5XWt6pvb8&feature=plcp
    Last edited by sky_fly20; 11-17-2012 at 04:10 PM.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I don't agree that her PCS are too high...

    Frankly, I'm hard pressed to think of a single ladies skater I dislike as much as some people here seem to dislike Ashley and//or Julia. Of course I love both of them so....
    She is a real winner but her scores leave no place for competition...Here is a 2013 world champ. I mean why to make different 3-3s when people win with huge score without them..And Liza performed. She showed a mature skating

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by raress View Post
    I agree Ashley is rock solid on jumps but beside that I don't see her being so gracious and having so hard transitions and ice coverage as others top skater do,she gave it all and I like her she my favorite american beside Gracie but PCS so high this early sorry I don't get it.Maybe Caro doesn't have the strong content in jumps as Ashley but in terms of skating skills I'm sorry Asley needs some development there,and I wasn't talking about jumps here anyway.
    Ashley's transitions are quite good; did you see the spread eagle into the 3Loop? Her ice coverage and skating skills are fine as well. Not Carolina Kostner-level, but then again who is (other than Carolina Kostner...).

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    True, but Carolina didn't have the amount of jumps Ashley did nor did she have the transitions into and out of her jumps. It's also important to remember that scoring is relative to the competition.

    I think Ashley's PCS are high but given the speed she skates with, ease across the ice and sureness of movement (SS), the difficult transitions into and out of her elements (TR), the gorgeous choreography that highlights the music (CH), her attention to the music and portrayal of the character (IN) and the fact that she executed all of her elements and performed with energy and excitement (PE), I'd say those marks are justified.

    ...
    I absolutely agree with you and thanks for expressing it so well!

    It seems to me that all of the naysaying and nitpicking that is cropping up about Ashley's skating is because she's thrown down the gauntlet and is prepared to battle. Ashley's got all the goods too, no matter how many people don't like her skating nor how much they would like to dismiss her. Ashley's already been through the fire, and she's come through determined and she's as honed and sparkling as a diamond.

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