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Thread: 2012 TEB Ladies Long Program Lp

  1. #211
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    Good for Liza finally making it back. It would be nice for her if this is a new beginning. I hope Adelina will eventually get it because I would love for these two to make it to the Olympics. Anyhoo I knew Ashley would probably prevail in the long and I agree she should have the higher pcs but not that high.

  2. #212
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    Liza's lutz in the combination was enormous both in length and height such and amazing technique...I think she may be the only hope for Russia next year...along with Lipniskaya!

  3. #213
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    LADIES FREE SKATE - VIDEOS & RESULT (Updated)

    1. Ashley WAGNER (USA) - 190.63 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
    2. Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA (RUS) - 179.62 Free Skate, 2nd Copy
    3. Julia LIPNITSKAYA (RUS) - 179.31 Free Skate, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
    4. Christina GAO (USA) - 164.71 Free Skate
    5. Mae Berenice MEITE (FRA) - 157.58 Free Skate
    6. Polina KOROBEYNIKOVA (RUS) - 144.82 Free Skate
    7. Elena GLEBOVA (EST) - 140.86 Free Skate
    8. Jenna MCCORKELL (GBR) - 135.40 Free Skate
    9. Joshi HELGESSON (SWE) - 133.77 Free Skate
    10. Lena MARROCCO (FRA) - 132.44 Free Skate
    Last edited by Mao88; 11-17-2012 at 04:51 PM.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by raress View Post
    Liza's lutz in the combination was enormous both in length and height such and amazing technique...I think she may be the only hope for Russia next year...along with Lipniskaya!
    Russia might get 2 spots only for women Olympics , the 2013 Worlds will be tough . so far only Liza and Julia have showed much promise and can score high
    Alena is a question mark and Adelina is a headcase

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by koatcue View Post
    She is a real winner but her scores leave no place for competition...Here is a 2013 world champ. I mean why to make different 3-3s when people win with huge score without them..And Liza performed. She showed a mature skating
    Are you saying that Ashley's scores "leave no place for competition." I disagree. Weren't you around when Yu Na was skating. It was Yu Na's high scores that set the high mark in ladies' competition. So there is still lots of room. I don't like the CoP scoring system, but the way it's structured, Ashley's marks are within reason, and more than that, clearly deserved.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    Don't quite understand what you mean here by "seemingly mature" movements. Liza's flirtatiousness and fire are exactly what her music calls for. Her projection, connection to the audience, and interpretation of the music were excellent.

    Are you referring to Christina Gao in her SP or FS? I can't agree that Christina is "far and away superior" to Liza in terms of expression, particularly in her FS. Christina really feels the music very well in her SP, but her FS is a total mismatch for her artistic abilities. She doesn't express the fire, fierceness of her FS music at all (versus Liza who succeeded brilliantly with her FS music). Nailing all your jumps is great, but I can see why she got lower PCS than the medalists. As for Julia, she's got a long way to go in terms of music interpretation, but she does have an elegant look on the ice with those lines and flexibility and her movements are graceful. Is artistry all about lines and flexibility? No, but it certainly does help.


    ...
    You see it differently re Liza and Christina. My preference is Christina with the way she's been skating overall this season so far including her performances at SA and TEB. She faltered a bit in the sp at TEB, but I still find Christina more engaging to watch than I do Liza. As I said, I feel more warmth from Christina than I do from Liza. That's my personal perception and preference, and it's subjective.

    I characterized Liza's moves as "seemingly mature" because she's still very young and I don't buy the flirtiness. It's studied because she has no mature experience behind it, so it lacks depth and meaning for me. Christina is also young, but instead of flirtiness, I think Christina is simply exhibiting a greater sense of command with the lyrical gracefulness she always possessed but was a bit too gawky and immature in previous seasons to fully express. Now, Christina has more control over her coltishly long legs and arms. The difference IMO between Christina and Liza (because they are both still young and have a lot more developing to do) is that Christina is not trying to flirt, she's only trying to express her inner joy and deep love for skating. I don't think Christina has more maturity than Liza -- they are different people and different skaters and they each have a great deal to offer. I just prefer the Christina I am seeing this season over both Julia and Liza. As Sandra Bezic said at SA, Christina has "subtlety" in her skating, and that is antithetical to "fire," so right now Christina may not be taken as seriously in the marks, plus the fact she hasn't shown this kind of skating prior to this season. I hope Christina decides to stick with skating for the long haul, despite the fact she's attending Harvard full time. That's what makes what she's accomplished so far this season very remarkable!

    At this point, I even like Christina better than Gracie Gold in terms of grace and expressiveness, although Gracie has more height and strength on her jumps.
    Last edited by Art&Sport; 11-17-2012 at 04:53 PM.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    Russia might get 2 spots only for women Olympics , the 2013 Worlds will be tough . so far only Liza and Julia have showed much promise and can score high
    Alena is a question mark and Adelina is a headcase
    I'm sure they'll get 3 with Liza and Adelina there and I don't see Adelina not making the olympic team, she's 3 times Russia's national champion and Putin's favorite..I have to say she has tons of talent (amazing spins and also skating skills) but in terms of jumps she still fails to deliver,such a same I miss Adelina from 2010 when she won every competition she took part in,such a consistency,still hope is there somewhere inside of her but she needs to bring it out.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaylee View Post
    Ashley's transitions are quite good; did you see the spread eagle into the 3Loop? Her ice coverage and skating skills are fine as well. Not Carolina Kostner-level, but then again who is (other than Carolina Kostner...).
    Well you may be right ,now she's the best skater with Caro and Yu-na not competing ,mao's weak jumps(UR almost everything) and seeing Osmond with almost 60 and think they are fair...but the program need to get better ,and I don't see her receiving better at worlds anyway without 3-3 or 2a-3t.Anyway to me Liza was the highlight today(PCS should have been higher comparing her performance with Osmond's),and my heart goes with her.Congrats to all the medalists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raress View Post
    I'm sure they'll get 3 with Liza and Adelina there and I don't see Adelina not making the olympic team, she's 3 times Russia's national champion and Putin's favorite..I have to say she has tons of talent (amazing spins and also skating skills) but in terms of jumps she still fails to deliver,such a same I miss Adelina from 2010 when she won every competition she took part in,such a consistency,still hope is there somewhere inside of her but she needs to bring it out.
    I understand Adelina is favored by her federation, but its time to stop this now, it has showed Liza and Julia are their best shots at the Olympics
    I don't get how they are pushing her when she has failed in every competition since last season, imo its time they take Sotnikova in the back seat

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by raress View Post
    I'm sure they'll get 3 with Liza and Adelina there and I don't see Adelina not making the olympic team, she's 3 times Russia's national champion and Putin's favorite..I have to say she has tons of talent (amazing spins and also skating skills) but in terms of jumps she still fails to deliver,such a same I miss Adelina from 2010 when she won every competition she took part in,such a consistency,still hope is there somewhere inside of her but she needs to bring it out.
    Wow, Putin's favorite ... and yet sky_fly20 is claiming Adelina has "psychological and mental issues." Those two claims are just not seeming to match up! Surely Putin would not extend "favorite" status to "a headcase."

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Wow, Putin's favorite ... and yet sky_fly20 is claiming Adelina has "psychological and mental issues." Those two claims are just not seeming to match up! Surely Putin would not extend "favorite" status to "a headcase."
    Yes she failed to deliver and maybe is a mental block but no doubt she's the most elegant from all and there is talent,maybe a coach change will be for her good. Lipniskya is very strong but who knows what will happen in 1 year...her jump technique is not that good tough,her upper body is very forward in the air and you saw her landings are very scratchy.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    You see it differently re Liza and Christina. My preference is Christina with the way she's been skating overall this season so far including her performances at SA and TEB. She faltered a bit in the sp at TEB, but I still find Christina more engaging to watch than I do Liza. As I said, I feel more warmth from Christina than I do from Liza. That's my personal perception and preference, and it's subjective.
    Okay, cool.

    I characterized Liza's moves as "seemingly mature" because she's still very young and I don't buy the flirtiness. It's studied because she has no mature experience behind it, so it lacks depth and meaning for me.
    I understand that you don't buy it--that's totally fine. But my point was that Liza's flirtatiousness matches the music. If it has no depth for you, fine, okay, but I'll stick with the point of view that Liza's moves reflect her music. Whether or not one likes it is up to them, but these are moves that one can logically see how they connect to the music.

    The difference IMO between Christina and Liza (because they are both still young and have a lot more developing to do) is that Christina is not trying to flirt, she's only trying to express her inner joy and deep love for skating.
    Again, are you referring to the SP or FS? In her FS, Christina is skating to Libertango. I agree with you that Christina is not trying to flirt, but IMO, in her FS, she desperately needs to flirt. It's a tango. She needs fire, she needs fierce movements, she needs flirtatiousness and sensuality, and none of that is there. See Kanako Murakami's FS for an example of a well-done tango FS.

    I just prefer the Christina I am seeing this season over both Julia and Liza. As Sandra Bezic said at SA, Christina has a subtlety in her skating that is antithetical to "fire," so right now Christina may not be taken as seriously in the marks, plus the fact she hasn't shown this kind of skating prior to this season.
    Again, I'm not arguing against your preference. Christina may have a subtle style (I think introverted is a better word), in which case, she should have never skated to Libertango, because it is not music that calls for subtlety.

  12. #222
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    Ladies

    Wagner: I may not like her style or attitude, but I have to recognize that she has the whole package in this LP. I liked her solid jumps, really good stamina, and white boots.

    Tuktamysheva: Love her! So happy that she performed so well. Great 3lutz-3toe.

    Lipnitskaia: Some say her 2 axel looks similar to Lipinski. I'm one of the only few who actually think Tara's 2 axel (despite acknowledging her flawed technique) looks pretty, which is not the case of Julia's. Again, unbelievable positions on her spins, but unattractive.

    Gao: Good performance, but why does she have to do her 3 flutz right in front of the technical panel?

    Meite: Kudos to her for recollecting herself after taking such a hard fall on her opening 3 flip.

    McCorkell: Shouldn't compare her to Witt but still will. I'd rather watch Witt's program without any jumps than McCorkell's version, even if perfectly skated, anyday.

    Other ladies: zzzzzzz

  13. #223
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    I just watched the videos great skate from Ashley. Liza was very good too.

    Congratulations to the Ladies! Well done!

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Wow, Putin's favorite ... and yet sky_fly20 is claiming Adelina has "psychological and mental issues." Those two claims are just not seeming to match up! Surely Putin would not extend "favorite" status to "a headcase."
    Quote Originally Posted by raress View Post
    Yes she failed to deliver and maybe is a mental block but no doubt she's the most elegant from all and there is talent,maybe a coach change will be for her good. Lipniskya is very strong but who knows what will happen in 1 year...her jump technique is not that good tough,her upper body is very forward in the air and you saw her landings are very scratchy.
    My original comments quoted above were meant to be sarcastic re sky_fly20's attitude toward Adelina. I was not comparing Adelina against Julia with my comment.

  15. #225
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    Mao88 should get a medal for providing us with all of these videos all the time!!! Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!!

    I was able to watch the first flight, then my feed conked out - I am so impressed with Gao this season. Too bad on her short and I didn't look at protocols, but wondered if she got a little hammered on PCSs due to being in the first flight or were there level issues I didn't see? Someone mentioned she flutzed - watching the live feed, I didn't notice. My only wish for her is that she find a way to square her shoulders a bit - they seem a little hunched to me (although, I feel that watching Yu Na Kim too, so maybe I'm not really seeing properly!).

    It's thrilling to watch Meite and I wish her much success!

    For final flight, I have only watched Ashley Wagner thus far. I want to gush!!! But here's the substance of my gush in a nutshell: it's so cool to see someone so well trained and confident just lay it down in competition; she didn't even look tired at the end at all! And, did she study Kwan's skating or what? She has so many Kwan-like flourishes and is clearly taking her time with each move and, while perhaps not quite like Kwan's double axel ride out, she is nevertheless showing us her landing run out edges and it is really so cool to watch. Kudos!!

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