2012 TEB Ladies Long Program Lp

[Mrs. P]

Um sweetheart, please don't take that condescending "I know more than you" tone with me. Agnes does have nice speed and skates with ease across the ice and just b/c you don't think so doesn't count for much. Your favorite skater was Rachael Flatt so that's a good indication of what you base your opinions on. You've seen Ashley live...well congratulations, I guess that makes you the authority on the matter. Were you in Paris when she skated this weekend?

If you disagreed with Ashley's marks that's fine. I thought they were justified as do many others on this forum; others disagree and like I said, that's fine. But your jibe at me about "knowing nothing" was uncalled for and rude.

I've also seen Ashley live -- at Skate America. I will grant that she doesn't have blazing speed (nor is she super slow), but she DOES have is an amazing power and presence. You could sense her energy even as she was warming up.

I would think that presence would merit good marks in IN + PE, which lookie here, are her two highest PCS components at TEB!

Macassar88 WAS at TEB, so I'm hoping that he will reveal his thoughts in due time.

[kwanatic]

I've also seen Ashley live -- at Skate America. I will grant that she doesn't have blazing speed (nor is she super slow), but she DOES have is an amazing power and presence. You could sense her energy even as she was warming up.

I would think that presence would merit good marks in IN + PE, which lookie here, are her two highest PCS components at TEB!

Macassar88 WAS at TEB, so I'm hoping that he will reveal his thoughts in due time.

I agree. I never implied Ashely had Kostner-like speed or anything like that; I think she has good speed and nice flow around the ice. She doesn't appear to be creeping at a snail's pace and nor does she look labored or unsure of herself as she moves around. Ashley's presence is wonderful on the ice. She takes command from the instant she steps out there and that kind of confidence is very admirable...even more so when she skates the way she's been skating b/c she's backing that confidence up with a great performance.

[Art&Sport]

That sentence is art. Also sport.

[tulosai]

UYour favorite skater was Rachael Flatt so that's a good indication of what you base your opinions on. You've seen Ashley live...well congratulations, I guess that makes you the authority on the matter. .

Now, in FlattFan's defense, she has announced that Rachael is dead to her now, so at least she's seen the error of her ways

More on point, I've also seen Ashley live, twice. Her speed is nothing to write home about, but it is not worse than average. In fact, for a skater at her level I'd put it at right about average, perhaps slightly above. I admit I've not seen her live this year. I would say I found her better than average at not losing speed coming out of jumps or spins (though I'll also admit some of her endings of spins have looked a bit slow this year).

When I did see her live, she was faster than Flatt, and slower than Nagasu for what it is worth. Of course now, Nagasu is likely slower based on recent reports from people who have seen her live.

[FlattFan]

Um sweetheart, please don't take that condescending "I know more than you" tone with me. Agnes does have nice speed and skates with ease across the ice and just b/c you don't think so doesn't count for much. Your favorite skater was Rachael Flatt so that's a good indication of what you base your opinions on. You've seen Ashley live...well congratulations, I guess that makes you the authority on the matter. Were you in Paris when she skated this weekend?

If you disagreed with Ashley's marks that's fine. I thought they were justified as do many others on this forum; others disagree and like I said, that's fine. But your jibe at me about "knowing nothing" was uncalled for and rude.

Again, you struggled to understand what I said and got indignant when I called you out. Name one poster who's seen Agnes and said had the speed and ease across the ice. You were quite stubborn about it, my dear.
And resort to drag Rachael, who is done, into the post is just desperate.

Your tone is quite hostile. Maybe time to step back from the computer and take a nice walk?

[tripletimes3]

Ashley is really bringing it, congrats to her, she has obviously been working very hard. Seems like it has been awhile since the U.S. has had a skater who is as consistent as Ashley. I hope she continues this winning streak.
I think her programs could stand a little more choreography, but still, they are very solid programs. Shall we just give her the nationals gold medal now and save time?

[FSGMT]

Ashley is really bringing it, congrats to her, she has obviously been working very hard. Seems like it has been awhile since the U.S. has had a skater who is as consistent as Ashley. I hope she continues this winning streak.
I think her programs could stand a little more choreography, but still, they are very solid programs. Shall we just give her the nationals gold medal now and save time?

First of all, welcome! (a lot of new people are joining us!)
Then, I agree about Ashley: I think she is the most consistent American lady since Michelle Kwan! And, it looks like the GPF Ladies Champion will be for the third time in a row a first time-winner!

[golden411]

She has a head cold and was battling it throughout her FS--after her spectacular skate when Nicks asked her if she was feeling good, she replied, "No."

Thanks for filling me in. I was not following TEB news closely, but was/am happy for Wagner. Am even more impressed to learn that she did not let a cold stop her.

[eyria]

Sorry to rain on Ashley's parade, but her LP appears pale comparing with Joannie rochette's program. when the music was crying for choreography, she simply glide around with a few wiggling of wrists. I'm glad Ashley finally put things together, but I think her scores are a bit too high.

I have to disagree on this point. Personally I find Ashley's Samson & Delilah much superior to Joannie's. I thought Joannie's version was okay but no more than that. I preferred many of her other programs. Joannie is a wonderful skater, but what you need for this music is fire and confidence and sharpness--not qualities I associate with Joannie.

[kwanatic]

Again, you struggled to understand what I said and got indignant when I called you out. Name one poster who's seen Agnes and said had the speed and ease across the ice. You were quite stubborn about it, my dear.
And resort to drag Rachael, who is done, into the post is just desperate.

Your tone is quite hostile. Maybe time to step back from the computer and take a nice walk?

And yet again, you struggle to understand the concept that your condescending and belittling tone isn't appreciated, sweetie. I never said Ashley or Agnes skated with immense or mind-blowing speed; I said their speed was "good" or "nice", and several people here corroborated my claims by saying the same thing...so either you are incapable of comprehending the context of the words "good" and "nice" or you're the stubborn one here.

And using Rachael to prove my point has nothing to do with desperation. It's just a measuring stick of what you use or (to be fair as tulosai said) once used to judge skaters, so I think that correctly illustrates my point. Judging by your past comments you seem to like to incite a bit of shock/hostility on this forum and that's just fine...but you shouldn't act surprised if someone takes offense to your comments. If you make snarky remarks be prepared to receive some snark back, honey.

[noskates]

Speed and gliding are nice but not if you don't land the jumps!!! I thought Ashley deserved her marks and more. She was confident, strong, and most of all clean! Her jump landings were not sloppy. Not sure why anyone would try to compare her to Joannie Rochette though. Just saying.

[FlattFan]

And yet again, you struggle to understand the concept that your condescending and belittling tone isn't appreciated, sweetie. I never said Ashley or Agnes skated with immense or mind-blowing speed; I said their speed was "good" or "nice", and several people here corroborated my claims by saying the same thing...so either you are incapable of comprehending the context of the words "good" and "nice" or you're the stubborn one here.

Who here thought Agnes was "good" and "nice"? Name one beside yourself and your cat. Sweetheart, I'm not here to coddle you. I called you out on an incredulous claim and you immediately got all defensive.

And using Rachael to prove my point has nothing to do with desperation. It's just a measuring stick of what you use or (to be fair as tulosai said) once used to judge skaters, so I think that correctly illustrates my point. Judging by your past comments you seem to like to incite a bit of shock/hostility on this forum and that's just fine...but you shouldn't act surprised if someone takes offense to your comments. If you make snarky remarks be prepared to receive some snark back, honey.

When did I say Rachael had speed? It added desperation to your point. You can snark away, sweetheart.

[tulosai]

When did I say Rachael had speed? It added desperation to your point. You can snark away, sweetheart.

I really don't know why I am getting involved in this, but you actually said Rachael had speed after Nationals last year. You haven't said it in this thread, but it is certainly a claim you have made.

[FlattFan]

I really don't know why I am getting involved in this, but you actually said Rachael had speed after Nationals last year. You haven't said it in this thread, but it is certainly a claim you have made.

I would be shocked if I actually said Rachael was speedy or any silly claim like that.
Luckily there's a search function, so I can find out exactly what I said

in the short program

8. Rachael. She landed the 3F in warm-up. Then doubled her 3Lutz later. Then went back and rotated the 3Lutz-2T. I thought she's smart to do the Lutz in combo. She wouldn't need to have steps in front of it. What a fighter! From not able to land flips and lutz to put both of them out in the SP. Trouble with the 2A. I thought she would be around 56-57. Oh well. She got quite a few groupies with her. During the warm-up, they did a segment on her.
7. Christina. Troubled on her flip, so she aborted the 3T. She did 3F3T in warm up twice I believe. The second time, she URed and two-footed the 3T. Overall, ok performance. She is the fastest girl in the top 10. Axel is also work-in-progress. I believe she can develop a bit more.
4. Agnes. Wow!!! During warm-up, she doubled a few times. I was nervous for her. Then her 3T3T combo. And the beautiful 3Lutz. Gracie should take a look at Agnes' 3Lutz. It was perfect from take off to landing. Perfect air position. Love this SP. I thought they would give her 63 just to keep Alissa in the game. Good score! Now, this girl is still very slow. Maybe work on her speed and consistency. The US fed has 2 great girls who can outjump the Russian babies. Need to start polish both of them now.

Here's what I said in the LP

Some notes from watching all of them lives.
Rachael was slower today than yesterday. Her back is very stiff, which makes her spins particularly average. She does keep her speed throughout, and you can see she's attacking all of her elements. Very determined. College is demanding. She's doing both and doing an admirable job. Great girl.
Speed:
Ashley>Christina>Alissa>Vanessa=Agnes=Rachael>Caro line>Mirai

Tulosai, I did not say Rachael had speed. I said she kept her (slow) speed constant throughout the program. Some other girls, like Mirai, depending on the mistake, would drop the speed from above average to below average.
Christina was the fastest in the SP, but she made too many mistakes in the LP, and dropped her speed. This is why I put her below Ashley in the LP.

You owe me an apology for making up something I didn't say.

[brightphoton]

I would be shocked if I actually said Rachael was speedy or any silly claim like that.

She does keep her speed throughout

I did not say Rachael had speed.

hmmm