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Thread: Asada to use triple Axel later this season

  1. #31
    I got your program components right here. Pepe Nero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    ^^^

    The difference, I think, is that it is absolutely essential to have a quad if you want to win in the men's event. No doubt about it--just look at the top men's finishers at Worlds last season.

    For ladies, however, it's not essential to have a triple axel. Cleanly rotating the other triples is enough to win, and judging by the results at Worlds last year, you don't necessarily even need a full set of them.
    I think it may be true that the men need a quad to win the WC or OGM, at this point, given the value of the jump. Maybe. But I think this idea that the men need a quad to be competitive generally has taken on a weird status of "obvious truth" that the evidence does not generally support. We see men medaling and even winning GP and other events all the time the past couple of seasons without attempting or without executing fully-rotated quads. It would be amazing to see what awesome programs some of them could put together if they weren't devoting so much effort and time to the quad. Think of all the positive GOEs they could rack up on other elements.

    But, yes, you are right that a woman does not need the triple axel to win. I guess I just think that Mao should, at this point, be aspiring for historical greatness, not just more medals. (ETA: She has, of course, already achieved historical greatness. But I think she should try to get more of that, rather than worrying about more medals. )
    Last edited by Pepe Nero; 11-23-2012 at 01:48 AM.

  2. #32
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    Mao's not given up on the 3-Axel. She tried it at NHK practice. But I don't care if she does or doesn't include 3-Axel any more.

    See from 00.59: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxnG2Jkj5N8

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    Mao's not given up on the 3-Axel. She tried it at NHK practice. But I don't care if she does or doesn't include 3-Axel any more.

    See from 00.59: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxnG2Jkj5N8
    The attempts weren't perfect.They looked two-footed but fully rotated.

  4. #34
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    I love her for it. This is a sport," Faster, Higher, Stronger". If she will be ready, I hope she will try on competitions. Mao is very pretty in this season, I think she is more stronger than last year. Go Mao, go!

  5. #35
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    The attempts weren't perfect.They looked two-footed but fully rotated.
    They were definitely UR

  6. #36
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    They were definitely UR
    yes very much so. It is very troubling that for all the work that Mao has been putting into correcting her technique, her jumps continue to come up short of rotation. Most of her triples now look borderline if not obviously under rotated and she is missing the great height she used to have. I honestly don't see her landing a clean 3/3 or 3 axel again unless she makes a drastic technique change.

  7. #37
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    Mao will never have a 3a or a lutz barely a flip barely a loop totally inconsistent, triple toe totally incomsistent. She basically has no triple down at all. Her jumping is terrible and wretched and she's doing nothing to improve them. But it's also the system. She saw kostner she knows jumps are meaningless if you can get 65 pcs about. The ladies who get like 65 Tes or better all have to struggle for good pcs. I think maos jumps are horrible and atrocious and embarrassing to skating but she is winning. Like kostner won. Jumps mean nothing and are nothing now in ladies skating. It needs reform now or Mao will be doing all doubles in her win a worlds because people just love her doubles and spins and steps and skating skills and who cares about dumb triples.
    Last edited by gmyers; 11-25-2012 at 11:36 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Mao will never have a 3a or a lutz barely a flip barely a loop totally inconsistent, triple toe totally incomsistent. She basically has no triple down at all. Her jumping is terrible and wretched and she's doing nothing to improve them. But it's also the system. She saw kostner she knows jumps are meaningless if you can get 65 pcs about. The ladies who get like 65 Tes or better all have to struggle for good pcs. I think maos jumps are horrible and atrocious and embarrassing to skating but she is winning. Like kostner won. Jumps mean nothing and are nothing now in ladies skating. It needs reform now or Mao will be doing all doubles in her win a worlds because people just love her doubles and spins and steps and skating skills and who cares about dumb triples.
    So what's new?

  9. #39
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Mao will never have a 3a or a lutz barely a flip barely a loop totally inconsistent, triple toe totally incomsistent. She basically has no triple down at all. Her jumping is terrible and wretched and she's doing nothing to improve them. But it's also the system. She saw kostner she knows jumps are meaningless if you can get 65 pcs about. The ladies who get like 65 Tes or better all have to struggle for good pcs. I think maos jumps are horrible and atrocious and embarrassing to skating but she is winning. Like kostner won. Jumps mean nothing and are nothing now in ladies skating. It needs reform now or Mao will be doing all doubles in her win a worlds because people just love her doubles and spins and steps and skating skills and who cares about dumb triples.

    eek i think that's taking things a little far. She usually is landing her triples...but they don't have much height and often are under rotated.

  10. #40
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    Probably, the doubling is occuring because she is trying to master jumps with a faster entry speed. This is what Mr. Sato said after NHK in an interview:

    'We are aiming for big, high-quality jumps without losing any speed on the take off, but past habits tend to make her slow down in order to complete the jump, but this then leads to under-rotation. She knows she absolutely cannot do this, and we are hoping to achieve clean rotations. However, I think we are only halfway there in overcoming this problem. The more your speed increases, less leeway is there for any mistake, so feeling psychological pressure to forcibly maintain speed at all cost is causing her to make mistakes, and what we call a 'flat' (misfire) situation. She may feel that she has got the timing, but her senses are still betraying her at times, and repeated and repeated practice will be necessary for a while longer.'

    http://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/o...164/index3.php
    Last edited by hurrah; 11-26-2012 at 04:22 AM.

  11. #41
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    I know that mr Sato is great and a lot of maos jumps have improved since the olys ( lower free leg on flip take off and adding thje sal back for example) , however, I really dont understand why it was necessary to mess with her axel, no matter what you say about TAT and Mao, during the olys and 210 worlds mao was landing 3As like it was nobodys business. Anyway I really admire her for trying it i think it is exciting

  12. #42
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    Mr. Sato is very knowledgable and I agree with him. I think we see much fewer falls now than we did in years past because the women just skate slower, in part because they are doing so many transitions. However, as he points out, many ladies are holding back and instead of falling they are URing the jumps.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    Mao will never have a 3a or a lutz barely a flip barely a loop totally inconsistent, triple toe totally incomsistent. She basically has no triple down at all. Her jumping is terrible and wretched and she's doing nothing to improve them. But it's also the system. She saw kostner she knows jumps are meaningless if you can get 65 pcs about. The ladies who get like 65 Tes or better all have to struggle for good pcs. I think maos jumps are horrible and atrocious and embarrassing to skating but she is winning. Like kostner won. Jumps mean nothing and are nothing now in ladies skating. It needs reform now or Mao will be doing all doubles in her win a worlds because people just love her doubles and spins and steps and skating skills and who cares about dumb triples.
    More fallout from this misguided scoring system.

  14. #44
    Custom Title mary01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    Probably, the doubling is occuring because she is trying to master jumps with a faster entry speed. This is what Mr. Sato said after NHK in an interview:

    'We are aiming for big, high-quality jumps without losing any speed on the take off, but past habits tend to make her slow down in order to complete the jump, but this then leads to under-rotation. She knows she absolutely cannot do this, and we are hoping to achieve clean rotations. However, I think we are only halfway there in overcoming this problem. The more your speed increases, less leeway is there for any mistake, so feeling psychological pressure to forcibly maintain speed at all cost is causing her to make mistakes, and what we call a 'flat' (misfire) situation. She may feel that she has got the timing, but her senses are still betraying her at times, and repeated and repeated practice will be necessary for a while longer.'

    http://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/o...164/index3.php
    thanks for sharing this

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    Probably, the doubling is occuring because she is trying to master jumps with a faster entry speed. This is what Mr. Sato said after NHK in an interview:

    'We are aiming for big, high-quality jumps without losing any speed on the take off, but past habits tend to make her slow down in order to complete the jump, but this then leads to under-rotation. She knows she absolutely cannot do this, and we are hoping to achieve clean rotations. However, I think we are only halfway there in overcoming this problem. The more your speed increases, less leeway is there for any mistake, so feeling psychological pressure to forcibly maintain speed at all cost is causing her to make mistakes, and what we call a 'flat' (misfire) situation. She may feel that she has got the timing, but her senses are still betraying her at times, and repeated and repeated practice will be necessary for a while longer.'

    http://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/o...164/index3.php
    Thanks! That's very enlightening, and it gives me hope--for next year if not for this year. I want our Mao back!

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