1 0 0 3 -1 1 -1 -1 1
Except for the extreme outlier (the +3 GOE which I'm inclined to think was probably a case of wrong-button pressing on the judge's part), I found that these marks were in range of the GOE guidelines as listed in the tech handbook.
The positive GOE guidelines are below. I argue Takahashi's 3A in his NHK SP fulfilled the GOE bulletpoints I bolded:
1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
4) good height and distance
5) good extension on landing / creative exit
6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
7) effortless throughout
8) element matched to the musical structure
According to the guidelines (which are admittedly somewhat discretionary), judges are supposed to give +1 GOE for 2 bulletpoints, +2 GOE for 4 bulletpoints, and +3 GOE for 6 or more bulletpoints.
As Takahashi fulfilled 3 bulletpoints, judges have the discretion to give him around +1 or +2 GOE for the positive aspects for his 3A. The weak landing is (according to the tech guidelines) is supposed to be penalized with a reduction of -1 to -2 GOE (again, whether the judge chooses to subtract -1 or -2 from the overall GOE is discretionary and I guess depends on the egregiousness of the weak landing). So if you add all the GOE up and take into consideration all these factors, a range of -1 to +1 GOE for his 3A is actually quite reasonable according to the rules.
If you want to look at the rules yourself, they can be found here: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3589
Also, I don't think Takahashi's 3Lz-3T in his SP should have been called < at all. Do you have a screenshot or something showing otherwise?
Last edited by evangeline; 11-25-2012 at 02:59 PM.
I’m not trying to be nitpicking here because if I want to pick on Takahashi then it would be easier to pick on his 4t, which was often called < or <<. I’ve seen many people complaining about how he got lucky with 4t not called <, but I did not choose to talk about that 4t here because it was not under-rotated. I think people often question Takahashi’s 4t because it’s habitually < or <<, so when someone questions it then others would have the preconceived idea and then believe that it was < again. Takahashi’s 3lz3t OTOH was not often called <, and people usually would not question his 3lz3t. But I watched the SP and saw Takahashi’s 4t was indeed fully rotated, but the 3t in the 3lz3t combo missed rotation of more than 1/4 revolutions.
Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-27-2012 at 01:24 AM.
Last edited by dorispulaski; 11-27-2012 at 01:25 AM.
If you think someone needs a screenshot or whatsoever evidence to show the obviously under-roatated 3lz3t and 4t, then maybe you should take screenshots of the 3lz3t and the second 4t in the LP to show that why you think the second 4t is < but the 3lz3t is fully rotated?
Just finished watching Hanyu, Takahashi, and Fernandez's SPs. I agree with the placement. The twice record breaking SP from Hanyu has left me some unsatisfactory. Are you sure that this is the best ever SP from the men?! However, by studying in details of the protocols, I can't find anything even in nitpicking fashion except that 9.25 in SS. Hanyu's performance could be compared with Patrick Chan's record breaking SP performance at 2012 Canadian Nationals. So yes, Hanyu is the rightful world record holder for SP.
Takahashi was brilliant in performance! I don't mind at all that a flawed Takahashi was placed higher than Fernandez. Like Fernandez as well. 86.23 was great! But somehow, I felt his SP was too long and never ending.
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 11-26-2012 at 01:46 PM.
Folks, please remember to keep the bickering about each other out of the threads. Use the ignore feature, report posts that are offensive but do not respond and take a thread down! Once both sides get at it, it makes it 10 times worse for everyone. If you have a personal issue with another poster resolve it in PMs, don't let every one suffer through the needless bickering.
I asked for a screenshot or basically anything besides mere conclusory statements b/c whether Takahashi's 3Lz-3T was UR or not is not obvious to me. You keep saying it's obvious but I don't see it. It's definitely tight due to Takahashi's tendency to curl his landings after the back ends of his jump combinations, but looks just within rotation to me, and it's official ISU policy to give skaters the benefit of the doubt when it comes to doubtful cases....
Last edited by evangeline; 11-27-2012 at 11:00 PM.
I would not mind if Dai is to borrow either Taka's 'Cello songs' green shirt or Yuzuru's 'Parisian Walkways' grey shirt. Well, Dai has to rush to the tailor, to shorten the sleeves first though!
As for SP, I actually do not care what he wears, as far as he hits a quad and all other elements, and can sell that program like no one else can.
But as for his LP costume, I do care. I hope he will change it. At least no gloves, please. His skating and performance ability speak so much volume itself. He really does not need such flashy ala Russian-style costume I believe. So that non Dai fans can concentrate more on his skating, not calling him 'over-the-top'.
However, I love the overall line of his LP costume, because it highlights Dai's much improved 'stretched-out' postures. I also like the gradation of white top down to black bottom. It sort of reflects angel and evil sides of the program perfectly, which I personally see in his music I Pagliacci. So, I would appreciate if he can remove those glittering stitches, purple color and gloves.
Oops, wasn't this a 'Costume thread'? Sorry!
We have a Costumes thread!
You might wish to post costume stuff there! Comments get kind of lost here in the competition threads, once interest moves to the next event.
^I actually preferred the white jacket because it is more in character of the Stroll than the red jacket. In the 1950's in the US a lot of Country & Western singing
stars including Elvis Presley wore this type of jacket.
As far as his LP costume, I am not crazy about it (it does show Dai's great form though) and IMO it does reflect the character of the program, but compared to
some of other costumes especially Hanyu's LP and Machida's feathers Dai's LP costume is quite tame.
ETA: Sorry Doris will try to keep on topic or move to Costume Thread.
That's OK; it can stay here
I didn’t like Daisuke’s programs at NHK, but I really liked his red jacket costume-I thought he looked hot in it! Maybe the red jacket looked better live than on tv.