Bona Fide Member
Wondering about Wagner
I felt she did so well in Sochi, and while Adele (jab at Travolta, LOL) seemed to get away with tech slight mistakes, a flutz I read and more. Then The PCS scores I can't go there as millions have already picked this apart. Have Ash fan's deserted her? H would you rate her events as opposed to the judges scores/placements? I think she was beautiful, strong, truly fierce and one of the most expressive skaters in world while still doing the hard tricks. It is all Grace since nationals. I found Julip so badly overscored, her placement she have been lower. I think Wagner deserved 4th or 5th Mao 6 and Julip? Gracie was lovely classic ice girl. Ashley delivered and is versatile-her skates to rock are always powerful. She has a bit of Kwan fire-and Kwan was doing easier 6.0 programs, mind you. Ashley never gives up. Her deep edges seem to make it look heavier t times but her SS are impressive. Her speed /spins are her weakness. Otherwise I find much to like.
Ashley is back to the almost it girl. Not washed up- She delivered no Alissa total meltdowns. If sheloves to skate why not try a couple more years? She is world podium material. I though S/D very exciting. Her and Mao's LPs were highlight for me. Tho I missed Osmund and Edmunds LP in top ten. I think our trio is fab, Ashley weaves a story, seamless skating. Polina can dance and do same jumps as Yuna and Grace with much ease. Gold can do it all and yes, look at her. I feel her jumps are reigned in to give her control. If Frank decides to let her loose again, her huge jumps with control will be inbeatable. Only Mae Berenice and retired Yuna have thos powerful big jumps. Grace will be unbeatable. Does her rice push Ashley off map? I hope Ashley uses Grace's jumps to get better. Too bad Frank won't take her. A new rivalry in US ladies?
I have to say every time Ashley spoke, Grace looks annoyed and aggravated-like Wags doesn't know she is not the Ice princess. Ashley's Samson and Delilah was superb. She had 5 weeks to relearn it and she skated with fire, sexiness, so nuanced. Stunning costume. She is the total package even if Gold is taller/skinnier and has the consisten 3lutz/toe, great speed. Her style is different.
My next question- did the debacle at Nationals influence judges to see Ashley as second tier to Gracie's corornation? They welcome Polina, with hope. They helped her -Ash in USA, but are Intl judges soured on her? I like her directness, but I honestly fear she is hurting herself by off ice comments and being a quiet pc princess is what they prefer. I truly hope she skates great at worlds. Ashley belongs on that podium. Caro, Mao, Yuna, Ashley have beautiful mature presentation. The rest are miles awy right now, tho Geace and Julia are different but developing a signature maturity -I prefer Grace now nut Julia could quiet her arms a bit. Finishing touches. With YuNa gone and likely one to two spots going to the 3 jap. ladies who do better at home, Ashley has Caroklina, Julia and them to beat plusJulia who will be rested, mad and out to prove she's got the goods. Ashley, if perfect is still a long shot.
What can she do -if anything-to improve her base value? That program( LP) is so lovely-it should score big with her presentation. Im frustrated as she is better to watch than others. A slight two foot should not be so punished-or must it be when she becomes Delilah and Sotnikova remains Adelina tripping on her flags.
I hope Mao, Graci and Ashley make podium. Akiko would be thrilling as well. All ladies, you rock!
I think Ashley double footed and underrotated some jumps, otherwise, she was quite solid and would've been placed higher. If anything, I think Gracie was overscored in the PCs department - no way she deserved PCs close to that of the legendary Mao Asada's (with a 8 triple program).
I think Mao should've been 4th, Gracie 5th and Ashley 6th.
Bona Fide Member
What jumps did Ashley under rotate, where did she flutz? TY Also, Didn't Adelina's get over looked? No one was marked as "generously' as the two Russian ladies - the top 10 were not what many felt was correct. How they justified 5th for Julia was beyond me.
Now we have worlds in Japan with pressure to be generous to MAO=save face at last competition in Japan, even. Akiko, last as well. She was crushed I am sure in Russia. Kanako is young and should skate until Peyongchang. She can vie for any color medal when on. The judges like her.
Realistically with two good skates (as in Sochi) can Ashley hope for a bronze?
And is off ice bravura about gays/judging annoying the judges? I love honest, brave people but the FS elitist game for ladies has rules that never seem to change here in America. Smile, don't complain about judging no matter what, look as sexy, pretty, Disney princess as is possible. Be thin, pick classics to skate too. And do not expose the underbelly of this sport. She cannot keep quiet. But it affects her marks. Her PCS should make up for any edge calls she got in her SP or LP. Ashley -is losing ground with intl judges-why? Is there room for two or 3 Americans at top in the judges mind? I think Ashley's presentation is sophisticate. Gold has a bit to work on. Polina is so sticky/gawky. Jumps very nice but...Ashley has one Will she ever be US no. 1 again? World medalist? it seems this or next year will be ger last chances. ?
Until PCS is divorced from the tech scoring, people like Ashley won't be given enough credit for things they actually do do well. Frankly I thought she gave two of the best IE performances she's had since her Black Swan nationals, but because PCS and tech scoring are now like siamese twins, her overall score suffered for it. Those two programs were Performed with a capital P, and she should have been given more credit for it than she was. But that's the way the cookie crumbles under the current scoring system.
At first I thought 'oh no, another Ashley thread'. It's become pretty hard being an Ashley fan on this forum. What with everything she says being over-analyzed and everyone proclaiming doom and gloom and the end of her career. I obviously have a lot of opinions about that, but the Olympics have left me a bit figure skating weary. I'm not in the mood for discussions.
But I do feel like I have to add to this thread that I don't quite understand why the judges are so keen on dropping Ashley. I don't understand why everyone is so keen on pointing out her shortcomings. Reading this forum you'd think she was just 'lucked out' on some wins here and there while not actually having any talent. I think both artistically and athletically she offers a lot. It may be a question of personal taste, but I've always loved the way she sells the hell out of her programs. She may not be Sasha Cohen flexible or musical, she still has a lot of character, performance and musicality. She exudes love of skating. No 'deer in the headlights' for Ashley. Remember that nasty fall at the GPF in 2012? She was in crutches for a couple days but she still landed that 3F at the end of her program.
As to her Olympic performances and 'Ashley got the scores she deserved'. You will never convince me that she *wasn't* lowballed. Yes the combo should have received negative GOE in all segments of the competition but in no way were all of her jumps under rotated and/or two-footed. In fact, in the LP, I think the only other jump that possible had a two-foot was the 3F at the end of the program. Everything else was solid. Including a difficult and gorgeous spread eagle into 3L into 2A.
All of the top ladies had some issue or other in their FS. Even Queen Yu Na clearly two-footed a triple, Adelina had a step-out, Gracie had a fall, Yulia had a fall, a flutz and tiny jumps. Why are a couple technical errors in an overall solid performance only a valid argument for a low score in Ashley's case?
I too believe she belongs on that World Podium and should have gotten a medal already in 2012 (Alena's LP was a mess). I really hope the judging panel in Japan will give her credit were credit is due. And hopefully it will finally be enough. As to the future, Ashley hasn't got age on her side, but it's impossible to really predict anything. As long as she keeps going for it, I don't think we may ever count her out.