2012 NHK Trophy Mens Free Skate

[let`s talk]

And he got properly hit with minus GOE for that.

... and that was -0.77 for the spin on his butt, which is rather generous to say the least.

Its not like Hanyu got PCS in the upper nines

So, you are saying that we should be grateful that judges didn't give him 9s for the prog with multiple falls? And this is your argument on Yuzuflation in the contrast of Chanflation. Wonderful.

he beat Fernandez to gold and qualified for the Grand Prix Final.

There were a lot of justified talks that he shouldn't have won CoR at all last year, that's the gold belonged to Javi, and not without the reasons, since you want to talk about dead horses.

What were the judges smoking?

Overall, Takahashi should have a 2 or 3 point lead in PCS.

I agree with you- judges were smoking. 4 points lead over some exhausted kid with sausage-like body with rubber spinal cord with bad posture is surely the result of smoking, but at least smoking something legal, unlike with 2 or 3 points lead if we had had such a case.


Yuzu always had physical problems. Abe just knew his body better than anyone else and she managed to hide his issues more or less. Plus Natalya opened up his better artistic qualities that finally ended in three magnificient progs that he had las season. Now Orser is just working him out like a typical student and all Hanyu's issues are here. Enjoy. If they keep doing like that, Yuzu won't survive after Sochi.

[Art&Sport]

^^ (Re deedee's #149 post): Ross may have gotten the idea for his sp costume from a costume Evan wore in a few preseason shows (designed by Vera Wang). I think Ross looks fine, plus he has great programs that suit him. I agree with one of the earlier posters who said that Ross is resilient as well as a hard worker. He's also very consistent and I'm happy to see him land that quad and stick the rest of his program too and be rewarded. It's brave of him to keep working hard at the quad and putting it into his competitive performances. Ross is such a consistent skater that I think the few mistakes he made in sp at this and his other GP are totally related to his focus on perfecting the quad. However, he didn't shy away from working things out, and at least this time, when he faltered on getting the quad in the sp, he did not allow it to derail any of his other jumps. Because he skated so well in the majority of his sp, he was able to pull out a season's best score in the sp, which gave him confidence for the fp and he was great. ITA that Ross also has wonderful posture in comparison to both Fernandez and Hanyu. While Ross can continue to improve his artistry and presentation, he has well-choreographed programs (Tom Dickson), and I feel that he has charisma in the way it's evident how much he enjoys skating.

I agree. The way Hanyu looked is due to 1) lack of stamina, 2) lack of connection to music, 3) poor posture & SS. In consequence, in between elements he just didn't look like anything to write home about. He needs John Curry to have taught him skating before learning to jump.

When I saw Dai at JO I thought his Pagliacci was a masterpiece and that Leoncavallo would have cried watching him skate it like that and wondered what the Italian commentators would say at GPs. Since then I have seen it twice and it's as though it were a different programme skated by a different skater.

Exactly! ITA with you 100%. Despite the fact that Hanyu skated technically brilliantly in his sp, I don't feel he should be receiving PCS so high in either sp or fp. Hanyu is a precocious skater, but he lacks maturity and endurance. Time and again, he's able to skate a beautiful and technically clean sp and the judges go gaga, and then Hanyu fades in the longer fp, but because he was so over-scored in sp, he still wins.

ITA with your assessment of Dai's programs too. I saw things the same as you at JO, but I don't know what has happened since then, because I am just not impressed with either of Dai's programs this season. Yes, last season Dai raised the bar so high (and he should have won Worlds 2012 -- that will go down in history as an awful decision by the judges). For now, I wish the judges would allow Hanyu to prove he can build stamina and let him further develop his artistry, because he's clearly over-scored in both TES and PCS in my honest opinion. He's immature musically and artistically -- they need to let his developing maturity catch up with his technical feats.

IMO, Ross is a better overall skater than Machida and Mura too! I hope slow and steady will ultimately win the race for Ross. And I hope Jeremy gains physical and mental strength to persevere at Nationals and Worlds because his programs this season IMO are two of the best among the men. I like Jeremy's sp, Javi's sp, Ross' sp, Richard's sp, Machida's sp, D10's sp, Chan's sp, and Hanyu's sp is technically superb but he's simply trying to copy Dai's sp of last season with the jazzy theme and posings. I look at Hanyu and I feel amazed when he jumps so spectacularly in his sp, but I don't feel engaged emotionally at all in either of his programs. Kozuka also has some good programs this season and he will be very competitive. Oda is a great jumper and his sp is okay, better than his fp IMO.

Re fp's: Jeremy, Ross, Chan, D10. (I also think Joshua Farris and Keegan Messing have shown very good programs this season, along with Jason Brown, so they should all be competitive at U.S. Nationals). I think Javi's fp is fun and okay for him, but I'm not blown away by it. Hanyu has a well put together fp, but again I think his maturity needs to catch up with his precocity, and it goes without saying he needs to improve his posture and his endurance. Hanyu reminds me of a loose, bendable gumby doll.

Sorry about Murakami's injury in the sp. I hope he is recovering and free from pain now.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Yuzu always had physical problems. Abe just knew his body better than anyone else and she managed to hide his issues more or less. Plus Natalya opened up his better artistic qualities that finally ended in three magnificient programs that he had last season. Now Orser is just working him out like a typical student and all Hanyu's issues are here. Enjoy. If they keep doing like that, Yuzu won't survive after Sochi. :

....wow.

[Butterscotch17]

I haven't read through this thread yet, because I've been busy, and I managed to avoid the figure skating boards today so that I could watch the men's event in all of its suspense tonight on TV. It was a deep field and it lived up to my expectations. So after just finishing watching the event, I just had a few thoughts.

No one impressed me more at this competition than Ross Miner. However, I have believed since he first won bronze at U.S. Nats a couple seasons back that he was capable of great things. I have him pegged for the next American star that the U.S. is desperately looking for. Some say that it is Richard Dornbush, but Miner is far more consistent than Dornbush in my opinion, and I believe he has that star quality. He should make the World team this season, hopefully. But bronze in this field was quite an accomplishment and I am very happy for him.

After Javier's program, I just wanted to reach through the TV screen and give him a hug. Poor guy. He's capable of so much more than that, I think just the hard fall on that quad must have really thrown him off for the rest of the program. However, I have to admit, I was happy that Ross got the bronze medal over Javi - Javi still makes the GPF, where he has a chance to redeem himself. And he is just so darn charming; I'm well on my way to becoming huge fan

Daisuke skated well, not his best, but still good. His Pagliacci program is definitely growing on me, and I think it's improving. However, while two silvers and making the GPF is good, but I hope it will not hurt his confidence being beaten by two other Japanese men this season. Not the results he was probably looking for, but I think Dai is on the right track to keep improving and hopefully peak at the right time - Worlds.

Yuzuru was also very impressive to me. His short program made me say "wow". He's so adorable and he has so much talent it's crazy - he's the definition of "gifted". His free skate was good, but not great, and I have to say when I saw his scores, I was surprised. I thought they were a little high for those two rather large errors he made. (I know bringing up the word "overscored" is just asking for an argument, but I don't want to argue, I swear!) Yuzuru did deserve to win overall, but I really felt that Daisuke was better in the free skate. However, that's just my opinion after seeing it once, and I don't wish to take anything away from Yuzuru who had a great victory today. He skated well and beating Dai at NHK is quite an accomplishment for him.

Congrats to all the medalists, and better luck to Javier in the Final. Now I'll go back and read the thread, and see if anyone agrees with me

[kimganos]

... and that was -0.77 for the spin on his butt, which is rather generous to say the least. So, you are saying that we should be grateful that judges didn't give him 9s for the prog with multiple falls? And this is your argument on Yuzuflation in the contrast of Chanflation. Wonderful.
There were a lot of justified talks that he shouldn't have won CoR at all last year, that's the gold belonged to Javi, and not without the reasons, since you want to talk about dead horses.

I agree with you- judges were smoking. 4 points lead over some exhausted kid with sausage-like body with a rubber spinal cord with posture problemis surely is the result of smoking, but at least smoking something legal, unlike with 2 or 3 points lead if we had had such a case.


Yuzu always had physical problems. Abe just knew his body better than anyone else and she managed to hide his issues more or less. Plus Natalya opened up his better artistic qualities that finally ended in three magnificient programs that he had last season. Now Orser is just working him out like a typical student and all Hanyu's issues are here. Enjoy. If they keep doing like that, Yuzu won't survive after Sochi.

Wow, some of this post is just so uncalled for!

[pitterpatter]

Wow, some of this post is just so uncalled for!

Agreed.

[Li'Kitsu]

Yuzu always had physical problems. Abe just knew his body better than anyone else and she managed to hide his issues more or less. Plus Natalya opened up his better artistic qualities that finally ended in three magnificient programs that he had last season. Now Orser is just working him out like a typical student and all Hanyu's issues are here. Enjoy. If they keep doing like that, Yuzu won't survive after Sochi.

And it's so nice how much fun you have with the thought of Yuzu "not surviving after Sochi". So much unreasonable resentment, wow.

[giulia95]

I think Nanami has been able to handle Yuzu'asthma, not to hide it.... from a strictly physical point of view Yuzu is a miracle before than an amazing skater....

It seems Orser has started learning the lesson...

[let`s talk]

And it's so nice how much fun you have with the thought of Yuzu "not surviving after Sochi".

Where do you see "fun" in my post? The biggrin and my "Enjoy!" refers to those posters who justify the Orser's work with Yuzu who can't finish skating his FS normally, and not to Yuzu's fate as it is. His fate could be different if he were on other hands. But he is not. Since you like it, then yeah, it's fun to see that.

[Kalina]

Where do you see "fun" in my post? The biggrin and my "Enjoy!" refers to those posters who justify the Orser's work with Yuzu who can't finish skating his FS normally, and not to Yuzu's fate as it is. His fate could be different if he were on other hands. But he is not. Since you like it, then yeah, it's fun to see that.

Considering what a classy person he is, Daisuke would be so proud if he knew he had fans like you.

People, don't feed the trolls. You're just playing their own game.

[let`s talk]

People, don't feed the trolls. You're just playing their own game.

You are contrudicting yourself. If you believed yourself, you wouldn't need the post like that at all.

[giulia95]

His fate could be different if he were on other hands. But he is not. :

I totally agree with it. Unfortunately, when you’re 17 your fate is not in your hands..

Today Yuzu sang the whole time during the EX and his watery eyes at the end are saying a lot about the kid ...

Anyway I hope he’ll be able to protect himself physically and mentally trying to do his best..it’s already a good sign he was not miserably gasping at the end of the FS like at FT and SA.

[kimganos]

I haven't read through this thread yet, because I've been busy, and I managed to avoid the figure skating boards today so that I could watch the men's event in all of its suspense tonight on TV. It was a deep field and it lived up to my expectations. So after just finishing watching the event, I just had a few thoughts.

No one impressed me more at this competition than Ross Miner. However, I have believed since he first won bronze at U.S. Nats a couple seasons back that he was capable of great things. I have him pegged for the next American star that the U.S. is desperately looking for. Some say that it is Richard Dornbush, but Miner is far more consistent than Dornbush in my opinion, and I believe he has that star quality. He should make the World team this season, hopefully. But bronze in this field was quite an accomplishment and I am very happy for him.

After Javier's program, I just wanted to reach through the TV screen and give him a hug. Poor guy. He's capable of so much more than that, I think just the hard fall on that quad must have really thrown him off for the rest of the program. However, I have to admit, I was happy that Ross got the bronze medal over Javi - Javi still makes the GPF, where he has a chance to redeem himself. And he is just so darn charming; I'm well on my way to becoming huge fan

Daisuke skated well, not his best, but still good. His Pagliacci program is definitely growing on me, and I think it's improving. However, while two silvers and making the GPF is good, but I hope it will not hurt his confidence being beaten by two other Japanese men this season. Not the results he was probably looking for, but I think Dai is on the right track to keep improving and hopefully peak at the right time - Worlds.

Yuzuru was also very impressive to me. His short program made me say "wow". He's so adorable and he has so much talent it's crazy - he's the definition of "gifted". His free skate was good, but not great, and I have to say when I saw his scores, I was surprised. I thought they were a little high for those two rather large errors he made. (I know bringing up the word "overscored" is just asking for an argument, but I don't want to argue, I swear!) Yuzuru did deserve to win overall, but I really felt that Daisuke was better in the free skate. However, that's just my opinion after seeing it once, and I don't wish to take anything away from Yuzuru who had a great victory today. He skated well and beating Dai at NHK is quite an accomplishment for him.

Congrats to all the medalists, and better luck to Javier in the Final. Now I'll go back and read the thread, and see if anyone agrees with me

ITA with your knowledgable and fair viewpoint.

[Olympia]

I just got to see everyone on TV. Takahashi's long program was the one that moved me the most. (Act surprised.) This isn't to take away from anything Hanyu did; they showed his short and long programs, and obviously the guy's on his way to be a skating giant. But he still skates like a boy (not like a junior skater, I hasten to add, but like someone not yet matured into his power). Daisuke skates like a man, a mature artist and a commanding technician. I can't parse the skating skills and whatnot--that's not how I look at skating. But when I compare things like the footwork and spins of Daisuke to the other skaters in this competition, what I see is Dai's fluidity. His footwork and spins seem to unroll like ribbon, like dance, from somewhere inside the music. All the other skaters--Miner, Fernandez, even Hanyu to a degree--seem to be flinging themselves around in a dutiful sort of way. At times they're almost lumbering around, as if their feet have weights in them. After a few measures, I look away and continue with my task of organizing my sewing materials. (Exception: what an Ina Bauer Hanyu has!) With Daisuke, I'm riveted to the screen. There are a few movements in his spins that I can't even imagine how he made, because they seem to violate the laws of physics. How can he insert that little sideways kick without falling over? At those moments, I think that the force that keeps him upright is the music itself. This guy has something no one else has, and I'll watch him avidly no matter what ranking he attains with his performance. It's pure sorcery. Congratulations to all three medalists! But a special cheer for Daisuke.

[itoja]

^ Beautifully said!
Even my suffering husband (2 hours of skating in TV ) stopped when Takahashi skated and said " This guy is something else!"