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Thread: 2012 NHK Trophy Mens Free Skate

  1. #136
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    sorry - you are right - but a lot of the finalists did

  2. #137
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I am pretty sure Dai did not win any event on his way to the GPF qualification.
    What's that to do with anything? I still see the Japanese World team as Hanyu, Kozuka, and Dai those are their three strongest guys.

  3. #138
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    ^it was a response to me who said how cool is it that all of the men finalists won a competition, which is inaccurate, only 5 of them did and Dai did not.

  4. #139
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    Wow, such Harsh criticism for Hanyu! All of the top 3 did not skate their best. Maybe Dai could have been 1st overall but the placements were fair if you take everything into consideration.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by StellaCampo View Post
    I agree. The way Hanyu looked is due to 1) lack of stamina, 2) lack of connection to music, 3) poor posture & SS. In consequence, in between elements he just didn't look like anything to write home about. He needs John Curry to have taught him skating before learning to jump.

    When I saw Dai at JO I thought his Pagliacci was a masterpiece and that Leoncavallo would have cried watching him skate it like that and wondered what the Italian commentators would say at GPs. Since then I have seen it twice and it's as though it were a different programme skated by a different skater.
    Been trying to figure out why I'm not loving this skater. It is his posture, stroking, the bottom half of his body or something that I'm just not loving.

  6. #141
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    I was under the impression that Chanflation referred to Chan winning thanks to his super-high PCs scores, cushioning him when he had less than stellar performances. I am not sure how Hanyu getting 78 in PCS could be considered inflation. Curiously, these are almost exactly the same components he got at Rostelecom Cup last year, when with a comparable performance in the free skate (fall on rotated quad and fall on the footwork, and a lower base value than today due to having only one quad) he beat Fernandez to gold and qualified for the Grand Prix Final. And he was virtually nobody to the judges back then, never been to Worlds, fourth at the previous GP.
    With that said, up to now I don't like his free skate much, and his low PCs are more than justified by the fact that they lightened up the choreography as much as possible so that he could get to the end of the program. Orser and Wilson probably made that choice of music because they felt that it would have forced him to pace himself and pay more attention to his lines and arm positions, but right now he still has to work on that a lot. He's always been a bit rushed in his movements, something that works well with stronger programs like his SP or Romeo last year, but doesn't go well with soft music. It's not like he can't do it period, but he probably can't do it right now in a competition program: his Swan Lake program ended up looking much better as an EX, for example. With experience it will get better. His stamina too is a bit better, but could still be much improved. It's something that takes time, and I hope he continues doing run-throughs. Still, I think that interpretation-wise this was way better than Finlandia, when he was so much focused on landing every jump and getting to the end that he almost seemed to forget there was music in the background.
    I do like that they changed the layout: having two triple axel combinations in the second half is smart and racks up more points, and so is changing the last jump to a lutz and doing it earlier in the program. His flip is more unstable compared to his lutz, and tiredness makes him lip noticeably, like he did in Finlandia. Another smart thing is moving the Biellmann spin at the beginning of the program: when he did it at the end of his free skate last year it was always veeery slow and laboured, I don't think he ever got a level 4 for that one at the end. Today he did.

    About Daisuke: I like his programs better than I did at the beginning of the season. His artistry is not under discussion, but when I look at the programs he's skating now and the programs he was skating last year, I find them forgettable. He could do so much better. I'm not sure if this is Morozov's fault, but I can't help but think it is. The free skate looks suspiciously as if he's put his hands over it, I can't believe that choreography is just Shae-Lynn and no one else. Still, he's great and the only thing he needs to work on right now is consistency on his jumps. The improvements he's made with the quad in the past two years are tremendous, but he's competing with guys that have better consistency on that jump and can easily make it look effortless (Fernandez, Hanyu, Chan when he's on) and unfortunately one very good quad can top any PCS advantage he might have. I'm pretty sure he knows this and that he knows what to do, though.
    Also, our commentator (who's a huge fan of Daisuke and usually does a pretty bad job of concealing it) remarked at the end of his free skate, that yes his interpretation was very good as usual, but that she'd been very let down by the fact that he didn't do much in terms of transitions. She literally said "I was jotting down the transitions while we were watching the program and all I could write was 'crossovers, crossovers, crossovers'." She said that in comparison to last season's programs this is a huge difference and that it might be because of the higher tech content. I am not an expert so I can't comment on this, though.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    It was great that Rippon had a strong freeskate, ditto for Miner. Dornbush had some mistakes, but his choreography to the music is the best among the US men here, IMO.

    I like the programmes of Takahashi and Hanyu very much. Fernandez though had the best programme, in my opinion. Good that he managed to get into the Final. It definetely was not his day...



    I have watched figure skating since early sixties and seen lots of my big favorites leaving the eligible competitions. After a while always new favourites have appeared. Skaters come and go, but the sport of figure skating stays and continues.
    I can't explain it, I don't like figure skating so much as before.

  8. #143
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ Me, too. Meh.

  9. #144
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    Something’s wrong with this competition. Everyone’s getting much lower PCS than they normally would get at other comps, except Fernandez and Takahashi. Rippon got 67, Voronov 66, Dornbush 70, and Ross 75 with TES of 86! Oh really? What were the judges smoking? I think almost everyone is underscored in PCS except Fernandez and Takahashi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Okay lakeside, if you're reading this -- you do have a case with PCS and Javier at this competition. It is odd that he got the same PCS as Ross who skated a beautiful FS.
    Thanks. I’m glad you see that now. Ross is very talented, and his skating skills and posture are better than Fernandez. I think Ross is underscored here, probably due to the fact that he lacks the reputation. Wish he’ll skate this well at US Nationals and makes the world team.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie View Post
    I agree with you on all counts. Kind of anticlimatic in the Mens Comp to see somebody win with a flawed and draggy skate like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    He certainly should have lost the long program.
    If you think Yuzru should not have won the LP, then who do you think should have won it? Takahashi’s skate was also flawed. His TES was only 80, and it should have been lower because he URed more than one jump and he got lucky that the tech panel didn't call that 3lz3t >. His second 4t could’ve been >> too.

    I also think Takahashi’s PCS should have been only 2 or 3 points higher than Yuzru instead of 4.28 points. Yuzru had more speed than Takahashi throughout the program. Yes, Yuzru slowed down a lot in the last minute of his program, but he was still faster than Takahashi, and Takahashi did not have his trademark StSq here, either. Yuzru’s transitions were better than Takahashi in terms of quantity and difficulty. Choreography-wise, I think Yuzru had a better choreo, but in terms of performance and interpretation, Takahashi was definitely better here. Overall, Takahashi should have a 2 or 3 point lead in PCS.

    Ross was the only one clean here, but his basic skating skills and transitions are not on par with Takahashi and Yuzru. However, PCS of 75 is still too low for his skate and he should get 77. He got a lot of +GOEs, but his BV was much lower than Yuzru, whose LP is just so technically difficult that nobody else is capable of skating it cleanly now.

    Mrs. P, are you still keeping track of TESs and PCSs? IIRC, Yuzru’s TES of 88.93 is the highest TES in the GP series, and it’s scary that he achieved this with several big mistakes. So he changed his jump layout from SA? Now it looks even more difficult than before, with 4t, 4s, and two 3a combos in the second half! And he still keeps that crazy footwork into 3a, but now it’s 3a combo in the second half, more difficult than before. Plus, he doesn’t even have a 3s, as if 3s is too easy for him. Wow, nobody else is capable of skating this program.

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    I can't explain it, I don't like figure skating so much as before.
    I haven't for awhile.

  11. #146
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    Oh my goodness... I think I saw flashes of Johnny Weir at NHK. Did anyone look at Hanyu's fs costume? spandex meets splatter paint and does battlen with bedazzler and a froufrou ruffle. What the ????? I also do not like the way the cross is used on costumes. It is almost sacriligious.

  12. #147
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    ITA 100% with Lakeside.
    Last edited by kimganos; 11-24-2012 at 07:06 PM.

  13. #148
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakeside View Post
    Something’s wrong with this competition. Everyone’s getting much lower PCS than they normally would get at other comps, except Fernandez and Takahashi. Rippon got 67, Voronov 66, Dornbush 70, and Ross 75 with TES of 86! Oh really? What were the judges smoking? I think almost everyone is underscored in PCS except Fernandez and Takahashi.


    Thanks. I’m glad you see that now. Ross is very talented, and his skating skills and posture are better than Fernandez. I think Ross is underscored here, probably due to the fact that he lacks the reputation. Wish he’ll skate this well at US Nationals and makes the world team.



    If you think Yuzru should not have won the LP, then who do you think should have won it? Takahashi’s skate was also flawed. His TES was only 80, and it should have been lower because he URed more than one jump and he got lucky that the tech panel didn't call that 3lz3t >. His second 4t could’ve been >> too.

    I also think Takahashi’s PCS should have been only 2 or 3 points higher than Yuzru instead of 4.28 points. Yuzru had more speed than Takahashi throughout the program. Yes, Yuzru slowed down a lot in the last minute of his program, but he was still faster than Takahashi, and Takahashi did not have his trademark StSq here, either. Yuzru’s transitions were better than Takahashi in terms of quantity and difficulty. Choreography-wise, I think Yuzru had a better choreo, but in terms of performance and interpretation, Takahashi was definitely better here. Overall, Takahashi should have a 2 or 3 point lead in PCS.

    Ross was the only one clean here, but his basic skating skills and transitions are not on par with Takahashi and Yuzru. However, PCS of 75 is still too low for his skate and he should get 77. He got a lot of +GOEs, but his BV was much lower than Yuzru, whose LP is just so technically difficult that nobody else is capable of skating it cleanly now.

    Mrs. P, are you still keeping track of TESs and PCSs? IIRC, Yuzru’s TES of 88.93 is the highest TES in the GP series, and it’s scary that he achieved this with several big mistakes. So he changed his jump layout from SA? Now it looks even more difficult than before, with 4t, 4s, and two 3a combos in the second half! And he still keeps that crazy footwork into 3a, but now it’s 3a combo in the second half, more difficult than before. Plus, he doesn’t even have a 3s, as if 3s is too easy for him. Wow, nobody else is capable of skating this program.
    I need to update the score list in a bit, so thanks for the reminder.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by emma View Post
    ^it was a response to me who said how cool is it that all of the men finalists won a competition, which is inaccurate, only 5 of them did and Dai did not.
    Five GP winners rightfully qualified to GPF. Except Takahashi, of course. Who was the the only boy won a GP but not qualified to the Final? Takahito Mura at TEB...Not syaing Mura did not deserve the win because I was 'super-excited' for Takahito last week. However, Takahashi could have won TEB with these two performances from this weekend, I belive. I balme it JSF. I blamed it from the beginning. Upon the announcement of GP participants. To entry both Dai and Yuzuru at this NHK for a huge media attention and ticket sales. &

    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    I liked how Dai dealt with all this stuff (of course, he is so experienced in it ). He looked so happy after his second quad and then when he finished his prog, as if it didn't really matter much what he will get at the end. Good to see him so relaxed. I hope other stuff they will fix too by major events.
    Thanks a lot for saying it for me, Let's talk. We have seen this before. Many times.

    P.S. Ross Miner made my day of a rather depressing Mens/Ladies Free Skates for me. Thank you so much, Ross!
    But your SP shirt needs to go. You are not one of the 'Startreck' crews on duty, are you?

    Also, am so glad to see Voronov skated that well and his smiles at this NHK, after going thru unfortunate numerous injuries over the years! Just like Ross Miner's and Kevin Reynolds' for me, the more I see him skate, the more I like it and root for him. Wishing him and Menshov two very good skates at the Russian Nationals!

  15. #150
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    Takahashi is an ice coverage king. He skated so close to the fences maintaining speed. I wonder how many distances he skated. His CC could be bit higher. I saw Miner`s program first time this year… I like it. If he can refine it, it will be great program. Poor Fernandez… but he showed his guts by maintaining facial expression of Chaplin throughout the program even after jump mistakes and odd falls. He looked pale from warm up, hopefully, he is not sick or injured. Well..Hanyu… he again visibly lost speed from midpoint like he did gear change. Current program is too much for him to handle. As long as he keeps getting high score, it would not be a learning process for him. That is not good for him and figure skating as a sport.

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