11-24-2012, 03:13 PM
And people were claiming that Skate Canada is the most corrupt event in the GP series? Even poor Mao was embarrassed.
11-24-2012, 03:25 PM
No, it's not all subjective, but you could legitimately disagree. She is very capable of dazzling footwork but she doesn't do enough in-between or preceding her jumps. Merely doing them during the required step sequence is insufficient. So no, it's not a weak area, rather, it's only an issue because she failed to utilize them.
Originally Posted by kwanatic
Here is the full clip : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqaTQEak72U
I cut out all her 7 jumping passes at their specific moment, including their preparation into each of them:
None of the jumping passes were preceded by connecting steps or moves that could have enhanced her GOE on these jumps or TR of the PCS. These footages represnt facts, not an opinion.
The sections where Akiko Suzuki interpreted her music :
C1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqaTQEak72U#t=2m24s : During her circular step sequence, well done
C2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqaTQEak72U#t=3m20s : A highlight in her program though clearly, her upper movements are relatively simple and her face, almost without expression and her feet, just simple stroking
C3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqaTQEak72U#t=4m33s : Powerful ending, only wish if a bigger portion of her program could be like that, not just this little part
Except C1) and C3), there is very little interpretation of her music that is expected at this elite level. The rest of the program consist of above mentioned stroking from elements to elements with a laser focus expression on her face. With experience, she has clearly become very smooth and her movements are fluid and well executed but this program is somewhat too simple for a woman of her caliber, both in the upper body movements and better utilize her great footwork. Yu Na Kim has had such a success because she managed to combine both high technical standard with a captivating performance that enhances every single highlight in her chosen music back when she was dominant. Coompared Akiko to her, we can clearly see what Akiko is lacking in terms of choreography and music interpretation. I wonder if Akiko chose to sacrifice her transitions and a more complex choreography in favor of achieving consistency in her jumps? If so she made her strategic choice and should take responsibility for her choices.
So no, again, it's not all subjective. Feel free to rebut what I showed and said here; I am fairly comfortable that Akiko got the PCS she deserved in this competition.
Last edited by wallylutz; 11-24-2012 at 03:27 PM.
11-24-2012, 03:25 PM
I haven't see the programs although I'm not so sure the problem here is the PCS (although the judges maybe should have gone with Akiko there). I think the problem right now is currently the jumps aren't worth enough for the ladies. I think the point scale should be different for the ladies and the men. And perhaps things like the 3lutz should be worth more (and have a bigger difference between that and a 3toe than it currently has)
Since ladies aren't likely to do a quad 3/3s should be encouraged and valued more. And doing a harder combo should get more rewards... I think that's the issue is that the system doesn't reward what Akiko did enough vs what Mao did.
11-24-2012, 03:27 PM
I guess what many of you are saying in a very round about way is Mao's lead was not big enough for the challenged skate she gave in the fs to hold off Akiko. But I have to say I Akiko is perhaps one of those skaters you wonder why her pcs aren't higher just like i wonder why Carolina's are so high (yes she has good ss but she and Koripi in mho are overmarked often (especially if you are being fair to Chan who is an anomaly - his skills and edges are amazing (really amazing) but only a real expert would know.
11-24-2012, 03:41 PM
This reminds me of when Chan won a GP with three falls (I think it was one in the short and two in the long). I'm a Chan-uber, but was like: how the heck to he get that score??? Then others dissected it - and I could see how he managed to wrack up the technical scores that he did; but that left the components. But then, others explained them with some of the detail wallylutz just provided for Akiko and I remember thinking: ok, i can see all of them except P/E, which I felt at the end of the day should have been lower.
I wonder if, upon close analysis, we will come to see how Mao got all the points she was awarded but perhaps find one of the component scores too high. Just from 'gut reaction', I felt her short program score was too high since there was no triple triple; and I felt like many about the long - that is, my gut reaction was that 117 was way too high, should have been around 107 to 110. But gut reaction rarely works these days with CoP. I'd love to see someone analyze whether the levels were aptly called (and it wouldn't surprise me if they were), and I am confused about positive GOE for doubles (I assume that is correct, but read people questioning this so would like to know)....but I confess that it doesn't "feel right" that you can win a senior competition with so few triples in the LP.
I can see, from Wallylutz's analysis, that Akiko was likely scored fairly, meaning with the rules. Personally, I just love watching her skate and really route for her - but I, again at the gut reaction level, didn't find her score strange (but I do want her to nail that darn SP!).
11-24-2012, 03:45 PM
I do admire Akiko for working on her lutz. I feel the like her mistakes with that jump reflect the fact she's been trying to get a correct edge on it. I think in the long run that will serve her well.
11-24-2012, 03:45 PM
Finally got to watching the performances of Asada and Suzuki.
I was bored by Suzuki's program, but boy she nailed it. Should have won, honestly. Asada made far too many mistakes and benefited from rep scoring. 117 for that...more like 107!
11-24-2012, 03:55 PM
She's such a fighter... And, guys, it's the fourth time that we see (inluding UR jumps) 7 triples landed from a Senior girl this season! Last year, during the JGP and GP, we just saw Lipnitskaya's 7-clean-triples programs, I think...
Originally Posted by Mrs. P
11-24-2012, 04:12 PM
She was scored rightfully whilst the other's score was inflated. Maoflation.
Originally Posted by wallylutz
It's not Mao's fault because she has the credentials-2x world champion and OSM and multiple national champion. Akiko hopefully would win Nationals!
jChamp- I love your analysis. It's very objective. As much as I love Akiko she could really improve in these areas you've mentioned.
11-24-2012, 04:39 PM
11-24-2012, 04:45 PM
Ok I just watched Mao, Akiko and Mirai's programs. I have to say that I was very impressed with Akiko and Mirai. I didn't even notice most of her URs. Good for Akiko for skating clean. What I noticed about Akiko is that her spins are all ugly. Just not beautifully done. Mirai's spins, on the other hand, are so beautifully done, positions and speed wise. Other than that, Akiko was brilliant. I really love Mirai's LP this year. I wish she would bend her knees more when skating.
I wasn't impressed with Mao's LP at all. She should have placed 3rd.
11-24-2012, 04:47 PM
The CoP rule book would fit the bill.
Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu
Seriously, how long can we blissfully tolerate a scoring system where one skater skates best, but the other skater wins the prize?
A system that has skating fans (on this very thread) saying, "I will never watch this sport again"?
11-24-2012, 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by skatinginbc
11-24-2012, 04:55 PM
I would like some of the in depth analysis as well to help me understand, but I am not an expert to do so unfortunately :(
Originally Posted by emma
11-24-2012, 04:56 PM
Well, Mathman, if you can invent a system that will make sure no skating fans will ever say that, we may have to start to worship you. FYI, under 6.0 system, Akiko would be too far back after the SP to win regardless, so the outcome would still be the same.
Originally Posted by Mathman