2012 NHK Ladies Free Skate | Page 11 | Golden Skate

2012 NHK Ladies Free Skate

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
I know and respect everyone has their own opinions. And yes, even Goe's are subject to interpretation as are all marks. But the system allows for someone TES flawed to possibly win. The COP system is just too complicated even for us diehards. I think Chan has got an unfair rap. I am guilty of it because I repeat myself - but mind you everyone else does the same. Sometimes we put so much into a jump as people but remember in the case of NHK Mao had a huge lead and she lost by a lot in the freeskate. She just had too big of a lead. But the marking system allows for someone TES weaker to still do well or win. In the legal world it is often frowned upon that district attornye or for that matter any lawyer but especially the prosecutor not criticize the judge as to influence them. WE have to be careful booing, blogs, websites like this does not intimidate judge - they are suppose to be free of partisan and control their biases but ironically by yelling and screaming too loudly and too voiciferously that could destroy the sport. So the very complaints many have may only be perpetuated or in short, we look like hypocrites. We say judges are blind or bias and then we influence them. I am not sure how do you judge a good edge versus a good quad? I know this will be an unpopular approach but I think we need to consider that. And in many ways we are all rational to ourselves and irrational to those who disagree. (Guilty here) We have our favourites; sometimes you read these posts and it is obviously who likes who and sometimes it is "rationalized" by the poster but it is their positon or thoughts and other time it just sounds like for no reason they like so and so. Sadly in many ways there is only one gold medal and three podium spots (usually lol). Like my mom taught me - what is fair is in the eye of the beholder. I guess our happiness and the skater's happiness shouldn't be in the results made by the judges. Life has to go on....

It doesn't matter that Mao lost the free skate. The score she got for it was amazing and astounding and lots of others probably would have fallen off the podium because of all the doubles and singles. The entirety of goe and pcs probably would have been reduced for other skaters. But Mao got an astounding and great score.
 

bluesky85

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Tried to get up early for this, but couldn't manage it. Wow, what did I miss? Akiko wuzrobbed again?

I haven't watched the FPs yet, but it does seem odd to me that people continually lash out at the skaters that questionably place ahead of her (Leonova, Osmond, and now Asada). I'm quite an appreciator of Suzuki and hate to see her edged out like this when she's had the better skate, but given the pattern it does seem to be more about not scoring her highly enough than scoring a series of other skaters too high.

Agree... It seems to me that Akiko is not underscored, but other skaters are overscored to edge her out.
 

bluesky85

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
there was nothing overrated, she was just clean on all her elements and got level 4 on all her spins and steps, and really sold the program! she was a true joy to watch!

Akiko should take this as a good lessen, to know how crucial the mistakes in the sp is!

it was very close, but the final results makes perfect sense once on looks at the sp AND fs, afterall it's the COMBINED result that leads to victory!

Yes, Mao's short program was a joy to watch and I did like it very much. But it was still overrated. 63-4 points would have been sufficient with less GOEs.
 

mikeko666

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
I realized that Asada got no < either in SP or in FS. The 3F in SP was certainly UR and so was the 3Lo+2Lo+2Lo in FS. The tech panel was so lenient to her.
 

bluesky85

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Do you actually watch the performances or just look at the protocols? I definitely don't think they explain everything. In what ways are Asada's PCS components so much better than Suzuki's today? I also don't agree with judges awarding +1 and +2 GOE for her doubled jumps and 0 GOE for a double flutz and 1S.

You keep mentioning Suzuki's huge mistake in the SP, but I don't see how one singled jump is worse than three doubled + 1 singled jump from Asada. I also don't agree that those mistakes have no effect on the performance. They do.

I agree. Mao's PCS shouldn't have been higher than Suzuki's because of the overall performance, but I can still tolerate their PCS. What I really don't understand is the TES that became way too high because of the GOEs on so many not-so-well-excuted elements. I actually feel bad for Mao because of her high score. She is clearly not happy with her poor performance, and unjustly high scores adds to her unhappiness. On top of that, she has to deal with embarrassment.
 

bluesky85

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
America would LOVE to have a skater of Akiko's skills, work ethics and presentation. Akiko would score so much better if she had her federation to back her (or at least not actively sabotage her).

If America had Akiko skating for them this year, it could have potentially won 3 spots for Sochi (along w/ Ashley they'd do well enough for it). But since Akiko skates for Japan, she'll continue to be robbed as her federation has ZERO love for her. It actively seems to hate her.

I love her skills, work ethics and presentation, too, but I also like her personality. She is not proud or pretentious. I want to adopt her for my country :p
 

bluesky85

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
This exactly. Akiko was robbed again, but instead of people mainly being sorry for Akiko, quite a lot are coming up to hate Mao (or before her Kaetlyn or Alena - although the latter does get the hate on a rather general basis).

It's not as if bashing Mao now would help Akiko, or as if she'd want to hear something like this. I really adore both of them. It's an awful situation for them both and both tried to keep their smile.

And Akiko has always been a classy act. You don't hear her complain or envy others, no matter how underrated she is. I think she's been lowballed for years now. She's got the determination and the storng will of a real fighter, but it doesn't look stubborn one bit. Everything about her seems so positive, elegant and light. I feel so sorry for her now, 'cause just before this competition there was an interview in which she said she considered quitting. And look at how she skated today. She said she felt she still had something to offer, and could still get better - and hell was she right. But she's not getting the jugdes appreciation for that. And I really, really don't get why.

Edited, because I need to learn to watch my mouth ;)

This, I agree completely and that's why I like Akiko despite my nationality (and hers).
 

bluesky85

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Chan has never had as bad skates as Mao is having and Mao is winning. But forget winning. Her medaling is completely disgraceful. Once again three triples and she can win an event. It's so pathetic and ridiculous and Mao is not deserving and needs to give back the medal because her win and her jumping is a total disgrace.

I agree with you 100% She won both COC and NHK with only 3 triples. At least, I didn't feel bad about COC result, because I still thought her performance was not really worse than Julia (Julia was better technically but Mao was better in other ways, so I couldn't really pick one of them, but somebody had to win, so Mao might have been a better choice than Julia) But this time, Mao not only did just 3 triples, but also doubled or singled other jumps. At least in COC she did all the triples even though they were underrotated and downgraded, which means, her performance at COC was much better than at NHK.

But then, sadly her winning is not her fault :(
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
It doesn't matter that Mao lost the free skate. The score she got for it was amazing and astounding and lots of others probably would have fallen off the podium because of all the doubles and singles. The entirety of goe and pcs probably would have been reduced for other skaters. But Mao got an astounding and great score.

But the issue is did Mao have a big enough lead even with the errors and I don't know skating well enough - of course your comments appear to be Mao related my other discussion does raise some truths probably. :)
 

mary01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I realized that Asada got no < either in SP or in FS. The 3F in SP was certainly UR and so was the 3Lo+2Lo+2Lo in FS. The tech panel was so lenient to her.

no way her 3lo-2lo-2lo was clean and beautifully executed! by the way I love loop jumps in general it really is a beautiful jump, especially Mao 3lo!:love:
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Akiko Suzuki PCS

For what it is worth, I don't find Akiko's PCS being underscored here. After watching her performance, this is what I would have given her for the Components :

SS = 8.5
TR = 7.0
PE = 8.25
CH = 7.75
IN = 7.5

In summary, Akiko had a powerful skate and well executed LP, probably one of her best ever. That being said, there are some clearly discernable weaknesses in this program, namely the lack of connecting steps or elements. She gave this viewer an impression that she just skated from element to element. Most of her jumps were not preceded by any connecting moves of significance, which automatically lowers her GOE relative to other skaters who do more, for example vs. Kaetlyn Osmond. The latter has an ISU Technical Specialist as her coach, who knows exactly what a panel is looking for whereas the design of Akiko's elements aren't very textbook ISU standards. This is such a shame because Akiko has very impressive ability to dazzle people with her footwork, which she only uses during step sequences but not in-between. I think Akiko should give Patrick Chan a call.

When it comes to CH and IN, the construction of the program is adequate but leaves some points on the table. Yes, there were some captivating highlights in the program but for the most part, she seemed laser focus on her elements and forgot about performing. The composition of the CH can also be more clearly separated into different sections, to give her program a clearer sense of layers and change of rythm, which she didn't do. It felt as though the energy level of her performance stayed at the same level throughout.

Finally, Akiko's interpretation of her chosen music can still be improved through better utilization of her in-between and more expressive upper body movements. She simply spent too much time laser focus on her jumps and forgot she needs to express the highlights of her music. It's not because she can't - on the contrary, in the sections where she does such as in her step sequences and towards the end, she was captivating. But after the opening, the gap between that and the ending - there is a lot of empty space. The music is beautiful but she also needs to show it as well.

All things considered, she would have gotten a PCS of 62.4 from me, which is just about in line with the judging panel, so no, I cannot validate the accusations that her PCS is being underscored.
 
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jChamp

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
For what it is worth, I don't find Akiko's PCS being underscored here. After watching her performance, this is what I would have given her for the Components :

SS = 8.5
TR = 7.0
PE = 8.25
CH = 7.75
IN = 7.5

In summary, Akiko had a powerful skate and well executed LP, probably one of her best ever. That being said, there are some clearly discernable weaknesses in this program, namely the lack of connecting steps or elements. She gave this viewer an impression that she just skated from element to element. Most of her jumps were not preceded by any connecting moves of significance, which automatically lowers her GOE relative to other skaters who do more, for example vs. Kaetlyn Osmond. The latter has an ISU Technical Specialist as her coach, who knows exactly what a panel is looking for whereas the design of Akiko's elements aren't very textbook ISU standards. This is such a shame because Akiko has very impressive ability to dazzle people with her footwork, which she only uses during step sequences but not in-between. I think Akiko should give Patrick Chan a call.

When it comes to CH and IN, the construction of the program is adequate but leaves some points on the table. Yes, there were some captivating highlights in the program but for the most part, she seemed laser focus on her elements and forgot about performing. The composition of the CH can also be more clearly separated into different sections, to give her program a clearer sense of layers and change of rythm, which she didn't do. It felt as though the energy level of her performance stayed at the same level throughout.

Finally, Akiko's interpretation of her chosen music can still be improved through better utilization of her in-between and more expressive upper body movements. She simply spent too much time laser focus on her jumps and forgot she needs to express the highlights of her music. It's not because she can't - on the contrary, in the sections where she does such as in her step sequences and towards the end, she was captivating. But after the opening, the gap between that and the ending - there is a lot of empty space. The music is beautiful but she also needs to show it as well.

All things considered, she would have gotten a PCS of 62.4 from me, which is just about in line with the judging panel, so no, I cannot validate the accusations that her PCS is being underscored.

I don't think it's the score that bothers most posters, but rather the score in relation to Asada's.
 

bluesky85

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
yes, her flip and lutz technique is good, and so are the edge jumps, but she has the Asada-like revolutions type so she could have worse problems of UR jumps, if she grows a lot or she gains weight I think...

Could you please explain more? I don't understand the revolutions and stuff...

Also wouldn't her jumps stay with her if her techniques were really good? The fact that she might lose her jumps means there must be something wrong with her techniques...

Doesn't she also get edge calls for her lutz?

I am still learning the details, so any details information or explanation will be appreciated :)

Thank you!
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
Quick thoughts...

Mao: I adore Mao but this wasn't right. What's so terrible is everyone knew it...Mao included! She looked mortified! She knew she skated poorly and that Akiko deserved that win. I've never heard the crowd so stunned...Mao barely cracked a smile...everyone knew that was wrong. It's not her fault so I don't blame her at all. If she was sitting there cheering and looking a thrilled, I'd have been pissed. But she knew...everyone knew.

Akiko: That's the best she's performed in years!! That program is AMAZING and she nailed it! That scored was excellent and is only second to Ashley right now. This was yet another competition where she wuz robbed...and like I said everyone knew she deserved gold. I don't understand why the judges held Mao up like that...

Mirai: I'm so proud of her! Her SP was great and while I don't particularly care for her FS it was good to see her have a clean performance. A few URs here and there but in terms of peaking for nationals, she's right on track.

Zijun: She was wonderful and that's an excellent score she posted!! I love her lyrical style and she is flying under the radar a bit, which is great. So proud of her!
 

MK's Winter

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
I think Akiko skated beautifully! Her jumps were wonderful! And her footwork throughout was gorgeous! She keeps the figure in skating and being 27 she makes me want to compete again at 30:) I really believe she was over penalized in the short. She truly should have won this competition and its an injustice she didn't.

Way to go Mirai! I think her coaching change was very much needed and it shows. What great programs from her! I would have had her first after the short based on her doing a 3/3 and she sold it just as well as Mao did. She should have been second today. I am glad to see her getting consistent again.

Mao is a very beautiful skater and I feel badly that the judges have put her through this controversy. This program has wonderful potential she needs to get her jumps back. I would have had her 3rd or 4th in the long program. With the long and short combined I don't feel she should have won, her tech content is way to low and by giving her these scores the judges send a poor message.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
I don't think it's the score that bothers most posters, but rather the score in relation to Asada's.

Agreed. I felt the same way about SC.

Akiko's score here (126+) is excellent and, like I said above, only second to Ashley's scores of 127+. The problem was Mao's FS score should have been in the 110 range...117 for what she did was excessive and unwarranted. I thought she was a bit over scored in the SP as well. That performance was excellent but I thought it should have been 63 or 64...67 was too much for her content IMO.
 
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mary01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
For what it is worth, I don't find Akiko's PCS being underscored here. After watching her performance, this is what I would have given her for the Components :

SS = 8.5
TR = 7.0
PE = 8.25
CH = 7.75
IN = 7.5

In summary, Akiko had a powerful skate and well executed LP, probably one of her best ever. That being said, there are some clearly discernable weaknesses in this program, namely the lack of connecting steps or elements. She gave this viewer an impression that she just skated from element to element. Most of her jumps were not preceded by any connecting moves of significance, which automatically lowers her GOE relative to other skaters who do more, for example vs. Kaetlyn Osmond. The latter has an ISU Technical Specialist as her coach, who knows exactly what a panel is looking for whereas the design of Akiko's elements aren't very textbook ISU standards. This is such a shame because Akiko has very impressive ability to dazzle people with her footwork, which she only uses during step sequences but not in-between. I think Akiko should give Patrick Chan a call.

When it comes to CH and IN, the construction of the program is adequate but leaves some points on the table. Yes, there were some captivating highlights in the program but for the most part, she seemed laser focus on her elements and forgot about performing. The composition of the CH can also be more clearly separated into different sections, to give her program a clearer sense of layers and change of rythm, which she didn't do. It felt as though the energy level of her performance stayed at the same level throughout.

Finally, Akiko's interpretation of her chosen music can still be improved through better utilization of her in-between and more expressive upper body movements. She simply spent too much time laser focus on her jumps and forgot she needs to express the highlights of her music. It's not because she can't - on the contrary, in the sections where she does such as in her step sequences and towards the end, she was captivating. But after the opening, the gap between that and the ending - there is a lot of empty space. The music is beautiful but she also needs to show it as well.

All things considered, she would have gotten a PCS of 62.4 from me, which is just about in line with the judging panel, so no, I cannot validate the accusations that her PCS is being underscored.

interesting observation, and spot on..... it's these little details that make a big difference!
 

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Quick thoughts...

Mao: I adore Mao but this wasn't right. What's so terrible is everyone knew it...Mao included! She looked mortified! She knew she skated poorly and that Akiko deserved that win. I've never heard the crowd so stunned...Mao barely cracked a smile...everyone knew that was wrong. It's not her fault so I don't blame her at all. If she was sitting there cheering and looking a thrilled, I'd have been pissed. But she knew...everyone knew.

Akiko: That's the best she's performed in years!! That program is AMAZING and she nailed it! That scored was excellent and is only second to Ashley right now. This was yet another competition where she wuz robbed...and like I said everyone knew she deserved gold. I don't understand why the judges held Mao up like that...

Mirai: I'm so proud of her! Her SP was great and while I don't particularly care for her FS it was good to see her have a clean performance. A few URs here and there but in terms of peaking for nationals, she's right on track.

Zijun: She was wonderful and that's an excellent score she posted!! I love her lyrical style and she is flying under the radar a bit, which is great. So proud of her!
\

Doncha just love those Eurosport announcers? They are the best in the business. I am always so excited when someone posts videos with their coverage.

Very sad, but it was nice to see Mirai almost back to her old self, and I hope she keeps it up for US Nationals. Also, I love her SP dress...so beautiful.

Mao? Well, once upon the time she was one of the greatest to ever step on ice. Now she skates as if her strength is sapped, and she is almost frail. She still has a beautiful light quality, but she is a shadow of her former self. Literally and figuratively.
 

christinaskater

Medalist
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
I think Akiko skated beautifully! Her jumps were wonderful! And her footwork throughout was gorgeous! She keeps the figure in skating and being 27 she makes me want to compete again at 30:) I really believe she was over penalized in the short. She truly should have won this competition and its an injustice she didn't.

Perfectly said!
 
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