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Thread: 2012 NHK Ladies Free Skate

  1. #406
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    In addition, Mary01, your original claim was that if we go back and look we'll see she had 'several' lutzes ratified. So far, among this whole board, we can only find 2 since edge calls began.

  2. #407
    skating philosopher
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    In addition, Mary01, your original claim was that if we go back and look we'll see she had 'several' lutzes ratified. So far, among this whole board, we can only find 2 since edge calls began.
    To be fair, she did not get any edge calls in the 2006-2007 season, but yes that was when they were not as strict. Since judges became strict in the 2007-2008 season, she has only had 2 ratified lutz jumps. But I think that's what you meant right?

  3. #408
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    To be fair, she did not get any edge calls in the 2006-2007 season, but yes that was when they were not as strict. Since judges became strict in the 2007-2008 season, she has only had 2 ratified lutz jumps. But I think that's what you meant right?
    It was! Thanks for correcting me/making my meaning more clear

  4. #409
    Simply the best. l'etoile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    thank you, finally a word of truth!
    Truth, indeed.

  5. #410
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    To be fair, she did not get any edge calls in the 2006-2007 season, but yes that was when they were not as strict. Since judges became strict in the 2007-2008 season, she has only had 2 ratified lutz jumps. But I think that's what you meant right?
    I seem to recall when she was working with Rafa, he got upset with the ISU for changing the focus (more point of emphasis on edge calls) mid-quadrenium saying that it wasn't fair to skaters that you start picking on this issue with only 2 years left before an Olympics and that it was unfair to the skaters and coaches. He knew, even back in 07/08 that her Lz entry was iffy....

  6. #411
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    well maybe you should look at the facts before you claim something that isn't true, try looking at all the times where Mao attempted the lutz and you will see she has got several lutzes ratified.

    ***
    Are we seriously going to argue that Mao doesn't flutz? REALLY? Her flutz is as true as any flutz has ever been.

    I truly don't believe as serious as her flutz is, she could be doing real lutzes sometimes, and flutzes some other times. Even for a skater with less of a flutz that's not really possible. Your muscles either KNOW how to do the counter rotation or they don't.
    Last edited by shine; 11-29-2012 at 11:59 PM.

  7. #412
    Custom Title mary01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    Are we seriously going to argue that Mao doesn't flutz? REALLY? Her flutz is as true as any flutz has ever been.

    I truly don't believe as serious as her flutz is, she could be doing real lutzes sometimes, and flutzes some other times. Even for a skater with less of a flutz that's not really possible. Your muscles either KNOW how to do the counter rotation or they don't.
    Mao did get several lutzes ratified when the rules became stricter, and they didn't suddenly happen out of nowhere, Mao worked very hard together with tat to correct it in 2008 and indeed succeeded and got them ratified under the new stricter rules, but the following season she once again chose to change her jump layout, where she chose to focus on the 3A, and therefor didn't attempt it for a whole season, and during that time she went back to her old habits, so now she is once again trying to change that together with Sato!

  8. #413
    Simply the best. l'etoile's Avatar
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    So Tatiana is a genius jump coach who made Mao's flutzes into real lutzes miraculously. *judges' turning blind eyes have no account in that "ratified" lutzes, yes?*

    Fixing edge problems doesn't normally take more than two seasons, a whole season, at average i.e., Joannie Rochette, Miki Ando, Patrick Chan, and many others did it in much less than two seasons. This is third season since Mao declared her rebuilding technique plan but still no real progress on flutz. This is really alarming.

    I absolutely applauded her for removing that mule-kick in flip but it kinda reduced power and height Mao had on flip which I admired. However, when you spend whole three seasons and still show some serious lapses, you get to really wonder if all those works are worth that much.

  9. #414
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Here is my advice for Mao's ideal jump layout which will guarantee her the Olympic gold medal.

    The key is, if you can't do a triple Lutz, do a double. Double Lutz with +1 GOE = 2.4 points. 3Lz<(e) = 2.8 points, so that's pretty much a wash. Plus, if you do a double you can not only control your take-off edge better, but also the landing edge so you could do a 2Lz+3T or 2Lz+2T+2Lo for big points.

    So here is the perfect program for Mao.

    1. 3F+2Lo
    2. 3Lo
    3. 3S
    4. 3F*
    5. 3Lo+2Lo+2T*
    6. 2Lz+3T*
    7. 2A*

    Easy does it. Base value = 41.7. Add in 20 points for non-jump elements and 10 points for GOEs, you've got TES = 72.

    Now work your Mao magic and get nines across the board for PCS = 72.

    Pick up another 72 in the short program.

    Total score for the competition, 216 points.

    Not bad for a program with no triple Axel, no triple Lutz, and no triple-triple combination!

  10. #415
    skating philosopher
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    Mao did get several lutzes ratified when the rules became stricter, and they didn't suddenly happen out of nowhere, Mao worked very hard together with tat to correct it in 2008 and indeed succeeded and got them ratified under the new stricter rules, but the following season she once again chose to change her jump layout, where she chose to focus on the 3A, and therefor didn't attempt it for a whole season, and during that time she went back to her old habits, so now she is once again trying to change that together with Sato!
    Sorry, I don't call two successful ratifications in one season a success...

  11. #416
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    If she replaces 2Lz+3T with 2A+3T, the score will be even better. She could beat Mike Ando, Ashly Wagner and Carolina Kosterner

  12. #417
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    welcome to GS, Shiloh! Post often, post long!

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