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Thread: Was Suzuki twice a victim of underscoring and pageantry in PCS?

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    Custom Title christinaskater's Avatar
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    Was Suzuki twice a victim of underscoring and pageantry in PCS?

    I feel for Akiko Suzuki. She has skated the performance of her life and one of the greatest skates in the history of figure skating and she was underscored in terms of her PCS scores.

    I do hope the ISU won't inflate PCS scores so much to hold up some skaters. I know it's not the fault of the skaters but I do hope ISU would look into this.

    Akiko clearly deserved 8.0 or even 9.0 for her PCS and she did not get it. The beauty points does help in terms of PCS but it's still about the skating and skating from the heart.

    I do hope she would get the marks she deserves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by christinaskater View Post
    I feel for Akiko Suzuki. She has skated the performance of her life and one of the greatest skates in the history of figure skating and she was underscored in terms of her PCS scores.

    I do hope the ISU won't inflate PCS scores so much to hold up some skaters. I know it's not the fault of the skaters but I do hope ISU would look into this.

    Akiko clearly deserved 8.0 or even 9.0 for her PCS and she did not get it. The beauty points does help in terms of PCS but it's still about the skating and skating from the heart.

    I do hope she would get the marks she deserves.
    You really have to build up to those high marks. Ashley, as an example, doesn't seem to have improved THAT much on the PCS criteria since the beginning of last season IMO. However, a number of consecutive great programs have put her in position to compete for the top places in the world and she is getting much higher PCS marks than last year.

    The Akiko vs Mao comparison is perplexing. Despite the mistakes, Mao earns so many points on her spins and fantastic footwork that it helps her quite a bit. And she moves across the ice with interesting an difficult transitions. Still, I don't think that should make up for so many mistakes but those mistakes are only factored in the first mark.

    One thing we did learn this weekend is that, even on the supposed objective TES scoring, the judges preferences can affect the outcome. That 3F in the short program seemed pretty clear to be >1/4 short. And I've never seen so much +GOE for doubling intended triples.
    Last edited by drivingmissdaisy; 11-24-2012 at 02:05 PM.

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    She is overrated. I dont understand all the fan love for her. She is a nice skater, but nothing spectacular, definitely not someone who could ever win a World or Olympic title. She became a top skater only because of the weak field the last 2 years, period, the same weak field that Ando benefited from winning a World title past her prime in 2011, that Czisny benefited at one point from, that Wagner is taking advantage of now, that Kostner capatilized to win her first Worlds with reduced jump content, that Leonova has capatilized on, and so on. In 2007-2010 she never would have been a top skater at all, and never was of course. I am also still annoyed she got the last spot on the Japanese Olympic team over Nakano in 2010.

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    Suzuki is a major major victim!! She is a world medalist but no one cares in judging because she is not the number one japanese person. Back and forth between Mao and miki and Suzuki is treated like a total afterthought and to judges it's almost Blah Blah Suzuki. She gets pcs that's too low against Osmond and then there at NHk Mao totally flops. I mean Mai just had one of the biggest disaster skates of her entire career. I can think of few skates that were as bad for Mao as her 2012 NHk one. Just a huge disaster. I think of Mao at 2010 NHk, kostner at 2009 worlds, Kerrigan at 1993 worlds, just one of those huge disasters that happen sometimes but because of too low scoring for Suzuki and too high scoring for Mao won.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmyers View Post
    I mean Mai just had one of the biggest disaster skates of her entire career.
    Well, I don't think Mai Asada was at the NHK 2012 as a competitior.

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    Lol that typo is her sister

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    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    She is overrated. I dont understand all the fan love for her. She is a nice skater, but nothing spectacular, definitely not someone who could ever win a World or Olympic title. She became a top skater only because of the weak field the last 2 years, period, the same weak field that Ando benefited from winning a World title past her prime in 2011, that Czisny benefited at one point from, that Wagner is taking advantage of now, that Kostner capatilized to win her first Worlds with reduced jump content, that Leonova has capatilized on, and so on. In 2007-2010 she never would have been a top skater at all, and never was of course. I am also still annoyed she got the last spot on the Japanese Olympic team over Nakano in 2010.
    This is laughable. If a skater like Miki Ando can win 2 world championships I see no reason why Suzuki cannot. She is a much better skater even if her jumps are not as big as Ando's. And sorry, Suzuki is a better skater than Nakano ever was.

    And some people talk about Asada's program as if it were jam packed like Patrick Chan's. In terms of transitions, yes she had a couple of nice spreadeagles, but mostly there were just a lot of stroking and three turns - how were her transitions so much more superior to Suzuki's? In general, I find her elegant and she sure has better extension than Akiko, but her intepretation in any program is just so generic and one-dimensional, and nothing really stands out. In terms of interpretation and sensitivity to the music, she doesn't even come close to Suzuki's level.
    Last edited by shine; 11-28-2012 at 07:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    This is laughable. If a skater like Miki Ando can win 2 world championships I see no reason why Suzuki cannot. She is a much better skater even if her jumps are not as big as Ando's. And sorry, Suzuki is a better skater than Nakano ever was.
    This is all a matter of opinion. Barring the leg wrap, Nakano's was quite a lovely skater with much better spins than Akiko. Actually, I do think a lack of attention to extensions distracts from the performance. I felt Akiko improved in terms of extensions and lines in her LP last year, so I was disappointed to see her spins so lacking in this area in her LP this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    This is all a matter of opinion. Barring the leg wrap, Nakano's was quite a lovely skater with much better spins than Akiko. Actually, I do think a lack of attention to extensions distracts from the performance. I felt Akiko improved in terms of extensions and lines in her LP last year, so I was disappointed to see her spins so lacking in this area in her LP this year.
    Yes, I feel that Akiko's LP program is not PCS-friendly this year. It's like they decided to see how much she could score doing what Miki and Carolina did with their winning programs. Less attention paid to music and more concentration on just doing the jumps as and landing them as big and fast as possible. So in other words, attempting to increase GOE and less effort in increasing PCS. I think her musicality was displayed far more in previous season's programs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    This is laughable. If a skater like Miki Ando can win 2 world championships I see no reason why Suzuki cannot. She is a much better skater even if her jumps are not as big as Ando's.
    Well Ando is one of the most overscored skaters in skating history. Suzuki cant count on the same very rare level of overscoring. If every skater in history who was better than Ando had 2 or more World titles they would have to go back in time and hand out atleast 6 of them per year.

    Besides that Ando won the 2007 Worlds by doing perfect programs like 7 triple longs and triple lutz-triple loops in both programs. The gap in jumping between that and Suzuki is so enormous it already makes her better than Suzuki, especialy as no area of Suzuki's skating is as spectacular as Ando's jumping in the 06/07 season. As for 2011 Ando lucked out to peak at a really weak time for ladies skating, the others should have taken their chance since it is not likely to be that weak again for a long time to come.

    As for Nakano, Nakano's performances at the 2008 Worlds impressed me more than anything Suzuki has ever done. Nearly everyone thought she should have been the gold or silver medalist that year, everyone but the judges it turned out. That was when ladies skating was at a way higher level than it is now, basically the decline of ladies skating has made people like Czisny, Wagner, Suzuki, and even Leonova (blech) contenders. No disrespect to them, they are good skaters, but in 2007-2010 they would be buried. Comparing her to Suzuki her spins are way better, she does the triple axel which I cant imagine Suzuki doing and yes she often had it rotated and ratified, and artistically I found her just as good or at times better, and she was faster too. I dont see where Suzuki is so vastly superior, she beat an already declining Nakano for the last Olympic spot in 2010 by less than a point, and only since Nakano missed a triple lutz.
    Last edited by pangtongfan; 11-29-2012 at 12:40 AM.

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    Still, the question remains. What do we think of a scoring system that awards the gold medal to a performance featuring 2Lo, 2fLz, 1S, and 2F'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    In general, I find her elegant and she sure has better extension than Akiko, but her intepretation in any program is just so generic and one-dimensional, and nothing really stands out. In terms of interpretation and sensitivity to the music, she doesn't even come close to Suzuki's level.
    ITA. Replace the first half of her Swam FS music with Liebestraume, and you wouldn't notice the difference. Her 2010-2011 tango was a disaster. Suzuki is much more versatile and always projects very different images in SP and FS.

    I also fail to see how Asada's skating skills are superior to Suzuki's. Suzuki has much more speed and deeper edges than Asada.
    Last edited by mikeko666; 11-29-2012 at 05:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeko666 View Post
    ITA. Replace the first half of her Swam FS music with Liebestraume, and you wouldn't notice the difference. Her 2010-2011 tango was a disaster. Suzuki is much more versatile and always projects very different images in SP and FS.

    I also fail to see how Asada's skating skills are superior to Suzuki's. Suzuki has much more speed and deeper edges than Asada.
    I disagree with this: the only thing that Akiko has better (speaking just about SS) is the speed, but, however, it requires her a lot of cross-overs to gain it, when the speed is actually Asada's weak part of PCS (I agree), but Mao's ability in using the edges and her flow on the ice is much better than Akiko's!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    She {Akiko} is overrated.
    This says all. Akiko's skating is not as outstanding as her fans portrayed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    I am also still annoyed she got the last spot on the Japanese Olympic team over Nakano in 2010.
    Nakano's peak was 2007-2008 and she started declining after that season. She deserved to be on the podium in the 2008 Worlds, but just like Suzuki, she was never one of JSF's favorites. She deserved to go to the Olympics in 2006 not in 2010. Because JSF was heavily criticized for sacrificing Nakano to send Ando to Turin, they tried really hard to send Nakano to Vancouver, and failed. Suzuki was just unstoppable. JSF hasn't change a bit since 2006 and they will send Asada to Sochi in 2014 even if she is no longer able to fully rotate triples just like they sent Ando to Turin. Her 3F in SP at NHK was under-rotated, and the judges simply turned blind eyes to it.
    Last edited by mikeko666; 11-29-2012 at 06:58 AM.

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