Was Suzuki twice a victim of underscoring and pageantry in PCS?

[Mathman]

I wish he had competed in a different year. Compared him with the US National Champion Ryan Bradley, Matt Savoie was definitely a superior skater!

This performance lost to Lysacek by less than a point. Savoie beat Lysacek in TES and Transitions and tied in Skating Skills. But Evan pulled out the win by getting higher scores in CH, INT and P&E. Matt clobbered Weir by more than 8 points in TES and was a bit ahead in PCS as well.

True, his program was slow. Like a steak nursed to perfection over a low fire, rather than tossed into the barbecue pit to be fished out two seconds later burnt on the outside and raw on the inside.

[Bartek]

A couple of spirals and spread eagles don't automatically make a program full of transitions. Suzuki also had a great spiral on a very deep outside edge by the way. You are trying to make it sound like Asada's program was so much more difficult than Suzuki's when it's simply not. Do you know that a 3 turn into a flip is a very standard flip entry that they teach you at the can-skate level? Can you please stop preaching to everybody that Asada's FS is oh so much more difficult because 2 of her jumps had the mohwak entry? Sure, having a mohawk is more difficult than having no mohwak in the absolutely sense, and it makes a difference when you are just learning to skate. But for THEIR level, it's such a relatively rudimentary step that wouldn't make the judges go "Wow, that's such an amazing transition, I better give her an 8.5 for TR and +2 GOE for that jump!"

Suzuki's spiral was not a transition, it was a part of a techical element called Choreographed Sequence. Besides, there was absolutely nothing leading into her jumps and immediately after her jumps. Asada at least had SOME transitions therefore her program is indeed more difficult.

Once again, look at the etrance to Asada's loop combination and flip. These are not just three turns and mohawks. Suzuki goes just straight into the jumps not dioing anything else.

[Mrs. P]

Mrs P's conclusions after 12 pages of this thread (and several pages of several others):


** Akiko needs to stop making her usual error in the short program so she doesn't have to work as hard to get a competition in the win column
** Mao needs to rotate her triples so she can win more definitively and without question
** Mao and Akiko both flutz
** Not everyone agrees on how PCS or GOE should be scored
** Not everyone agrees on what it means to have superior transitions (except that PChiddy has them! )
** Despite the basis of this thread, Mao and Akiko are both pretty!
** Mrs. P is only losing sleep on watching Korean dramas not over the scores at NHK Trophy.

And with that, off I go.

[Riemann]

Doubling an intended triple jump in a freeskate and landing it successfully is not “missing” the element. If it’s a successful double, it would be judged as such, and the GOE would be whatever it deserves as a successful double based on the quality of the jump

No comment on the scoring here, but there have been times where some judges seem to have forgotten this.

[mskater93]

mary01, That was VERY rude. I actually DO skate and my program is full of similar transitions with three turns, Mohawks, a couple counters, brackets and rockers, spread eagles and Bauers in my 2:40 program. I chose music that isn't as overused as well.

[christinaskater]

We should celebrate the Japanese super skaters!

I love Akiko! Hope she gains the consistency for both the short and the long!

[Bartek]

What is very suprising for me, the fact that one can be so consistant with jumps at such an "advanced" age. Very seldom does it happen in figure skating that 27 years old lady is so solid and just lands those jumps one after another. I can only think of Irina Slutskaya who was that consistant with the jumps, being 27 notwithstanding. Butyrskaya skated even later in her 20's but she wasn't anywhere near Suzuki and Slutskaya's consistency.

[Olympia]

Agreed, Bartek. Suzuki is a marvel of solidity and consistency, as well as being able to express the music and connect with the audience.

[christinaskater]

Agreed, Bartek. Suzuki is a marvel of solidity and consistency, as well as being able to express the music and connect with the audience.

She is a wonder of skating! She is just like wine, she keeps improving with age. She has given the skating world some glorious masterpieces through the years! Super Akiko san!

[wallylutz]

Now that we know the results of the Japanese Nationals, I was wondering if anyone wishes to change the title to Suzuki being a triple victim of underscoring?

When Osmond beat her at SC, there was huge outcry that a junior girl should not be able to beat World medalist given that the latter didn't bomb and that the win was a result of Osmond's powerful federation hosting the event. Seems to me, those people were advocating that reputation should count more than what was happening on ice, true and real pageantry.

When Asada beat her at NHK, the reasoning was switched to because Suzuki is not as pretty as Asada.

Now, Suzuki lost again, not only that, she missed the podium to a little junior girl by the name of Satoko Miyahara whom most people haven't even heard of until now. If Miyahara met the ISU age requirement, it is possible Suzuki won't even be sent to Worlds at all.

It's kind of funny with threads like this one, only the protagonist ends up being the one needing a gift in order to even to go to the World Championship because the best she can do was a 5th place finish at her Nationals LP and a Triple Toe + Double Toe combo for her SP.

[Mrs. P]

Akiko's got off the podium fair and square here with a very poor FS. I don't have a problem with Satoko, who had two solid skates, getting bronze. It doesn't change my mind that Akiko's placements should have been different at her GP events. (And again, my basis is strictly on how I felt the judging should have gone for THAT event, not on politicking or whatever).

And I don't think that she benefited from Sakato being ineligible for worlds is that big of a deal. Other skaters in other countries have benefited from this as well. Nor does it change the fact that Akiko is capable of great skates. She didn't at this competition. It happens.

[Olympia]

Oh, no! Oh, that's dreadful for Akiko, and for her fans. I don't want to say anything against the bronze medalist, but I wish it were Akiko.

[avalyn]

I wasn't outraged by Akiko getting second at Skate Canada, but I do feel that she did enough to win NHK Trophy. Her skate at Nationals doesn't change my opinion on that.

Your summary of peoples' arguments, that Akiko lost to Mao at NHK because Mao is prettier, is a simplification. Likely, they were just stating the fact that looks do play a role in figure skating, especially ladies figure skating, including how popular certain skaters are over others.

I don't see Akiko going to Worlds as a gift. JFS couldn't send the third-place finisher even if they wanted to because of the age requirements, so they must send the fourth-place finisher. If the bronze medalist was age-eligible, I could see what you mean.

[pangtongfan]

Well now if we go by Suzuki fan logic she was majorly held up in her Nationals LP for an obviously vastly inferior technical LP to many of the others, and gifted her spot on the team (even if with the aid of an age ineligible) by that. On the other hand we could just follow more logical logic and say her superior PCS to others which saved her spot on the team was the same reason she gets lower PCS in general than Kim, Asada, Ando, an improving Wagner, Kostner, and not significantly higher than good young skaters like Osmond and Sotnikova, since she just isnt the best international skater, and there are a group of women who generally speaking are just better overall skaters than she is, the same way she is just better than most of the younger Japanese at the moment, so merits higher PCS even on an off night. All that said I agree she was robbed at NHK of winning, but only by Asada`s inflated scores (especialy LP) at that event, not that her own were in any way underflated, she would have gotten around a 130 had her 7th triple been fully rotated, anyone thinking she should merit anymore scoring potential than that is reaching.

[Mathman]

Now that we know the results of the Japanese Nationals, I was wondering if anyone wishes to change the title to Suzuki being a triple victim of underscoring?

? I haven't read any posts saying that Suzuki deserved higher placement at Japanese Nationals. Many people thought that she deserved to win NHK and/or Skate Canada. They still do.