Should the JSF be promoting Hanyu before Takahashi?
Should JSF be promoting Hanyu now before Dai? I think not. He does a great SP but Dai is complete. Dai is the WC and Olympic medalist. Dai is beautiful to watch. Hanyu is so far an SP skater. Will he have elegance and finesse in a year? Stamina, posture? He's a fast, explosive jumper now, but hes not ready to be pushed to battle Chan/Javier-others with better programs and years better SS. Is JSF boosting his scores because they think he's the best by Sochi?
The best men who will have the quads/3axels with best skills/style/programs are for me in any order Dai, Chan, Fernandez. Hanyu's LP is at times a rough ride-why push him when they have Dai and Kozuka? Very complete skaters-more mature...Hanyu for Sochi?
It could easily be an Asian sweep or Japanese sweep in Chan falls too much.
GPF has 4 of 6 Japanese! Javier only one to make it from Europe/Russia. P Chan only North American. I hope Evan makes it to Nationals.
Forever stuck on those steps
Are you saying Javier has years better SS than Yuzuru?
Originally Posted by skateluvr
Clean Hanyu would beat clean Javier pretty definitly, I don't even think it would be close...
The key thing here is easy: Yuzuru is 17. He's not as complete as others by now, but with the speed this kid is developing, this might already change next season. Maybe Hanyu isn't JSF's best shot for 2014, but boy does he look ready to dominate the mens field after that, leading up until 2018. I don't think the JSF is pushing his scores. But surely Hanyu is going to be on that world/olympic team, even if he doesn't skate well at nationals, all this kid needs is time and experience.
Besides that: more complete skater =/= scoring machine under IJS. And Yuzuru is the JSF's best point getter, he already is now. I'm not seeing anyone besides maybe Chan and him cracking 95 in the SP. He's the best jumper Japan has - Dai and Taka don't have a second quad, not as consistent a 4T or 3A, and they're not getting the same GOE (and rightfully so...).
And now Hanyu does have his SP-skater status, huh? Already saw him being compared to Sasha Cohen quite often. But I'm not agreeing at all - we're just at the beginning of the season. Things didn't look different last time around - but starting with GPF, he managed to get his FS down. I'd think his LP will improve this time too.
I don't think the JSF needs to be pushing anyone of these 3 more than the others. And with the love Hanyu gets from international judges (and already got last season at WC while being japanese #3), I don't even think he needs so much politiking and federation support.
Off the ice
I think the JSF should promote both of them (and Kozuka), but I don't know how realistic that is. But if you have to identify the better bet in the long term, I think the JSF is correct in pushing Hanyu. He's younger, which means that he will likely stick around longer, still has room to develop (his progress so far has been staggering) and is likely less injury-prone; he has a stronger technical arsenal which he is still expanding - Dai was never the most consistent technically, and the ACL injury four years ago did not help matters. Takahashi, at this point, can beat others because of his PCS, but he's not as competitive technically, since he's prone to URs and other problems (like it or not, falls and sloppy landings are better than URs in many cases).
I think Dai at his best is incredible, but if you look at his career, he has not been a sure bet by any means. His medal record at major and even less major events does not match his talent level. The upside on Yuzuru at this point is higher.
I'm not sure what your final sentence has to do with this thread.
At the risk of being mauled I am going to say that Dai is more of an exhibition skater than a competition skater. IMO if Hanyu can get over his stamina issues, and he should with consistent training, he will be an all time great... provided he keeps the injuries at bay. He is only 17 so has years to develop. Kurt or Patrick ( my 2 favourites) were nowhere where he is when they were 17.
Originally Posted by emdee
Sorry emdee but this is the worst statement ever....by the way, not mauling you, just giving you a triple thumbs down
I understand what you mean. The difference between Takahashi and Plushenko is that Takahashi never does mindmill with his arms. The similarity between Takahashi and Plushenko is that they both use their upper body a lot to dazzle the eyes of the viewers, and made their body and arms the focal point of their skating. This might be the reason that Takahashi's Blues for Klook couldn't have received higher PCS.
Originally Posted by emdee
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 12-10-2012 at 01:02 PM.
Hanyu has better skating skills than Javier and many are saying in both phases he was faster than Dai. The fact of the matter is clear the judges see Dai as behind Chan and there really isn't anything in Dai's technical arsenal that's going to change that.
Originally Posted by skateluvr
However Hanyu, Hanyu has more in his technical arsenal that can challenge Chan. The judges are already scoring Hanyu higher than they have ever scored Chan in the short. And you have to realize as well that Hanyu's two fall free program at NHK with its issues still had the highest TES of all the men this season. If a guy is going to be Chan in Sochi it will be Hanyu
Completely agree with everything Li'Kitsu said.
About JSF's decision, I guess we'll have to wait until Nationals. But so far, Hanyu is the only japanese skater getting equal or lower PCs at home than in international competition: it happened last year at Nationals, and now NHK Trophy.
I think Yuzuru Hanyu is the Chosen One. Hopefully of the Harry Potter as opposed to the Anakin Skywalker variety, though.....
I just love this comment!
Originally Posted by evangeline
Getting back to the question--I can never answer things like this. Remember how Tara Lipinski was projected to do well in 1998 but be more medal-worthy in 2002? The future will hit you in the face every time if you think you know how to predict it. As for which of the two skaters Japan should get behind, Hanyu or Daisuke, what a glorious decision to have to make. I envy the federation its wealth of talent. Can it endorse both of them? (And while they're at it, both Mao and Akiko?) Surely there's a way to do this.
As a fan, I just know that I'm practically drooling in anticipation of the feast we will be getting in this year's Worlds and next year's Winter Games.
JSF should not promote anyone. I think Dai or Hanyu have excellent shots at OGM. THey are both great skaters with Hanyu improving. Hanyu's technical arsenal needs a bit more evidence. Because he is so new he doesn't have enough clean quads to say he is "consistent". He and Dai are getting there so while Javier and Hanyu have "more arsenal" they have yet to be really consistent and cleanly landing all the quads - this year could say a lot though. Chan will need to up the ante and ensuring the axel and quad triple toe is there and maybe look at one more quad but at the very least ensure he gets level 4's on all spins and footwork. Poor Verner and Brezina aren't looking so hot right now. Abbott is a bit of a question mark and a bigger question mark is OGM Evan. Forget Johnny Weir. I wonder what is running through Joubert's mind too?
Yes, they absolutely should push Hanyu over Takahashi. Hanyu is beyond a rising star; he's a future legend.
He has good PCS (which will only improve over time thanks to both improvement and reputation)
His TES potential is amazing. His jumps are much better than Takahashi's.
He's the most talented, complete 17-year-old since Plushenko. Actually, I think he's better than Plushenko was at 17. Heck, I'll say what I really think. I think he may be the best 17-year-old the men's side has ever seen.
Now, ice is slippery and the mind can play games, so no one can predict the future, but as he has yet to reach the best age for men, the future looks extremely bright. He deserves their full support.
Last edited by Riemann; 12-03-2012 at 11:32 PM.
I totally agree with you 100%!
Originally Posted by bekalc
Yuzuru's achieving his results because of the progress in his skating, his technical prowess, and because he's performed well - not because the JSF is 'pushing him' to battle Chan/Javier or 'boosting his scores.' It's not up to the JSF (or anyone) to decide if he's good enough or ready - if Yuzuru delivers, the marks are going to follow.
I don't think the JSF is greatly promoting any one skater over another right now (at least in the mens), and imo that's working well for them so far. With Patrick in the mix, strictly promoting Dai or Kozuka isn't going to cut it; they're both contenders, but hardly safe bets.
Like other posters have said, Yuzuru's a rapidly improving 17 year old whose biggest issue is that his body needs time to develop and strengthen. With 15 months until the Olympics, I'd say his prospects are pretty good.
In general I would say I'm sure the Japanese fed would prefer if Dai won because the fear with Hanyu winning in Sochi is he'll retire early. However at the end of the day you bet on the one actually more likely to win. And I really think that's Hanyu. At this point its already Hanyu and we are looking at a year before Sochi. At this point Hanyu may be their best shot at an OGM in general.