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Thread: Should the JSF be promoting Hanyu before Takahashi?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesthetics View Post
    Abbott has really good skating skills, he’s an old skater now and he still has edge work and transitions at this age, wonderful! But he’s also getting slower-not as fast as before-maybe also due to him getting older or working with quads. I think among Japanese men, Kozuka has deepest edges-his edges are a thing of beauty like Chan and Abbott, but too bad Kozuka is somewhat too slow for a top skater.
    Agree! I think it's the result of Yuka Sato's choreographies combined with Abbott's age factor. Abbott has been getting more and more generic from last season's LP to this season's both programs. Did I say before that I don't like Yuka Sato's choreography? I'm afraid that Abbott is adopting Johnny Weir's choreograph strategy - to skate according to the music and hit the "pretty poses". In Abbott's case, it's "hit the handsome poses". He is recycling some of his beautiful movements from the past programs, although they are still beautiful to watch and somehow remind me of the best of Abbott. Sorry for the OT.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 12-03-2012 at 10:30 AM.

  2. #62
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    Yes, they absolutely should push Hanyu over Takahashi. Hanyu is beyond a rising star; he's a future legend.

    He has good PCS (which will only improve over time thanks to both improvement and reputation)

    His TES potential is amazing. His jumps are much better than Takahashi's.

    He's the most talented, complete 17-year-old since Plushenko. Actually, I think he's better than Plushenko was at 17. Heck, I'll say what I really think. I think he may be the best 17-year-old the men's side has ever seen.

    Now, ice is slippery and the mind can play games, so no one can predict the future, but as he has yet to reach the best age for men, the future looks extremely bright. He deserves their full support.
    Last edited by Riemann; 12-03-2012 at 11:32 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
    Actually, I think he's better than Plushenko was at 17.
    Neither at 17 nor at any age Plu had a dying performance in FS that he cold barely finished like Hanyu does this season on a regular basis. You wanna be a fan of someone, go ahead. But posting meaningless things about other skaters that don't correspond to easy-to-be-checked facts won't make your statements more trustful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    This notion that federations promote one skater over another is old fashioned and out of touch. In the past, it was necessary for skaters to "wait their turn" and federations did politk and promote skaters. By the past, I'm talking 30 years ago. That doesn't happen today. Skaters promote themselves by what they do on the ice. The Japanese federation is basically standing back and letting judges decide who is the best - same for the women. These rumours that federations promote skaters are like conspiracy theories. Everybody is certain so much more is going on in the background that there really is.

    Daisuke has been skating at the elite level for 10 years and there's good in that and not so good. Two knee surgerys can slow you down (see Evgeny Plushenko), but years of performance experience are not without value and Daisuke is the best performer in figure skating. But he has never been the most consistent skater - brilliant one competition and crashing and burning the next. He is now consistent enough that he generally skates very well, but time and knee surgergies are have taken their toll on his jumps. Is it enough to keep him ahead of younger, fresher legs withs great skills? Time will tell.

    Aesthetics is right. Daisuke is not the fastest skater and his edges arent the deepest out there, but his blade skills and his performances are wonderful. I haven't seen Hanyu live to make a comparison, but I'm impressed that he's scored well over 90 points in his SP in back to back events, and when I watched the SP it was a huge WOW!!!

    I just feel joy watching the Men right now - so many AMAZING skaters. We've never had fields THIS good in all the years I've watched skating. Who wins if they all skate well? We do.

  5. #65
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    ^Right on!

  6. #66
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    Yes, indeed!

  7. #67
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    Welcome, Riemann! (Great username. ) Post often, post long.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Neither at 17 nor at any age Plu had a dying performance in FS that he cold barely finished like Hanyu does this season on a regular basis. You wanna be a fan of someone, go ahead. But posting meaningless things about other skaters that don't correspond to easy-to-be-checked facts won't make your statements more trustful.
    I expected a bit of ribbing from a Plushenko fan for posting that opinion. That is fair. Now here is some back.

    Plushenko, Worlds FS, Age 17: www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9ld_aZ83Fk

    Hanyu, Worlds FS, Age 17: www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLFNeOTWXI8

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
    I expected a bit of ribbing from a Plushenko fan for posting that opinion.
    Then why to come with the stuff that anyone can google, a fan or not. I too can post the link of the worst performance of your guy in the season and compare it with the best performance of my guy in the same season. But that's just lame. Play fair and be consistent in your claims. You said "at 17", not "at Worlds". So, here is some back: "at 17" season Plu skated in 7 events and won 6 of them, was 4th at Worlds. Yuzu "at 17" season skated in 6 events and won 2, was twice 3rd (one at Worlds) and twice 4th. You see, the claim that Yuzu was better at 17 than Plu at 17 doesn't correspond to simple facts.

  10. #70
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by let's talk
    Then why to come with the stuff that anyone can google, a fan or not. I too can post the link of the worst performance of your guy in the season and compare it with the best performance of my guy in the same season. But that's just lame. Play fair and be consistent in your claims. You said "at 17", not "at Worlds". So, here is some back: "at 17" season Plu skated in 7 events and won 6 of them, was 4th at Worlds. Yuzu "at 17" season skated in 6 events and won 2, was twice 3rd (one at Worlds) and twice 4th. You see, the claim that Yuzu was better at 17 than Plu at 17 doesn't correspond to simple facts.
    Then just take another performance from Plushenko when he was 17.
    Your approach isn't any better than Riemanns. Placements correspond to the rest of the field too, and not just to one skaters talent. And with 17, Plushenko had already two senior seasons under his belt - Hanyu didn't make it to worlds 2011 only for this ridiculously strong japanese mens field (which should be getting like 6 spots for worlds, not 3).
    There is merit to what Riemann said, if you like it or not - f.e. Hanyu is still 17 and just introduced a second quad. (I mean the statement in relation to Plushenko - I don't agree at all the JSF should push Hanyu over Takahashi. They should simply support both of them, plus Kozuka).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Li'Kitsu View Post
    Placements correspond to the rest of the field too, and not just to one skaters talent. And with 17, Plushenko had already two senior seasons under his belt - Hanyu didn't make it to worlds 2011 only for this ridiculously strong japanese mens field
    ... which doesn't change the fact that when he got a chance to go senior internationally, he failed to succeed to the level of Plu's results that the Russian made at the same age. As well as Hanyu failed to make a World Team at JN a season before and lost to Kozuka, Oda and Dai. While Plu made the Team and won over Yag a RN. Wait, are you saying that in terms of competition Russian Men field in that season with Plu, Yag and Abt was easier to win than the filed with Kozuka, Oda and Dai? You can't be serious.

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    I wish the JSF would promote kozuka more. He is may favorite japanese skater.

  13. #73
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Hanyu at his age is better than Plushenko was at the same age. Just get over it. The sport has evolved and people are learning more and more at a younger age. Of course, what makes Hanyu so special in addition to the technical ability is his ability to understand music and perform and hit amazing positions. Quite a few people at 17 these days are technically stronger than Plushenko was at 17, but they all lack the performance/artistic ability Plushenko had. Except for Hanyu.

  14. #74
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    I can also compare Plushenko's performance at 17, 1999 NHK : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aGZXEs4dIE

    But why Plushenko is always the standard been compared to? I thought this is a post about JSF.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Hanyu at his age is better than Plushenko was at the same age. Just get over it.
    I'm curious - does anyone ever expect someone to "get over" something by saying "Just get over it"? Or do they "do it to annoy, because they know it teases"?

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