Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 74

Thread: Sine qua non: Elements and Quality

  1. #46
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    3,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    It might be better to show transitions that are not a lead-in to a jump. In this example the audience will be more interested in the jump than in the fine points of the entry.
    Fair enough.

    By the way, if you back up to the previous element, a triple Axel, Scott says about the rotations and the landing -- three and half rotations; he just barely made it." I thought it was perfect. Maybe the tiniest of a few degrees rotation on the ice, but basically right on the money. Am I wrong?
    Looks rotated to me. At full speed in the program, it's clear that the axel loses speed, some of which he gets back with the double toe. That's not evident in the slow motion because you can't see how much more speed he had on the entrance compared to the landing. That's probably what Scott was referring to.

  2. #47
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ...I don't think anyone would want to buy a ticket to a gala held after a private competition.
    Probably why they don't have their way



    I forgot to mention, other sports may also have "close calls" ie. the puck hitting the goal post, the basketball bouncing on the rim and falling off the wrong side. Close-calls illicit ooohs of excitement. Figure Skating does not have close-calls, but does have the opposite ie. falls and stumbles etc. Perhaps not as exciting, since I assume everyone feels bad for the skater (unless you are bias against, or indifferent).



    All the ideas you have been discussing are good, but they appear to be aimed at casual fans with some basic knowledge. In some cases, I think it may be necessary to go even further back to raw basics.

    When I was at a hockey game with my brother and his wife, the wife mentioned it was difficult for her to "get-into" hockey because she did not understand it. As an example, she commented how the whistle just blew and the game was stopped, yet she had no idea why. I responded by telling her it was an "off-side" call. Her response was, "yeah, what is that". I think it is the same with Figure Skating.

    Before I became interested in Figure Skating, I had heard the terms "Lutz", "Axel", etc. and knew they were jumps. I knew a double was the number of rotations in the air, although it was not obvious from the name that a double axel was actually 2.5 rotations. I had no idea what the differences were between the jumps. To the new casual viewer, they all look alike (jump up, rotate, land). It was not until I made the effort to search the internet that I learned the differences. Even then, reading the descriptions wasn't clear (that site had too much technical details, and was difficult to follow). I had to read the descriptions several times in some cases. Most casual viewers would not make that type of effort, and would go through life blissfully ignorant and uninterested. The same sister-in-law also mentioned to me on a different occasion, that she wouldn't know the difference between a Lutz and a Flip (she chose those jump names randomly). What is a Mohawk? Is that a type of haircut or a native Indian tribe? Like my brother's wife with hockey, it would be difficult for people to become interested in Figure Skating if they do not have a clue.

    Occasionally there are trade shows held for cars, home products, hunting & fishing, wine & cheese. I don't know if there are similar sport trade shows, where local skating clubs can put on exhibitions, and give a brief basic "skating-for-dummies" demonstration between the performances. Perhaps the indifferent can be turned into casual fans, and the casual fans may become avid fans.
    Last edited by rvi5; 12-04-2012 at 07:14 PM.

  3. #48
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,450
    I like that idea! It would be a great way to get people up to speed on skating.

  4. #49
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    3,753
    To reach general audiences who wouldn't even call themselves skating fans, short educational segments on TV broadcasts would probably read the most people at that level of interest.

    The federation and local skating clubs could also have an ad that does more than just identify their existence but that also directs viewers to opportunities to learn more: local lesson opportunities and upcoming spectator-friendly events; major events featuring name skaters that fans might want to travel to and buy tickets for; educational written materials and videos available in print, on DVD, and/or online (probably for a modest fee) that go into more depth than what's shown during the TV broadcasts; live seminars that could be held in conjunction with competitions or at local rinks.

    There might be a few people in any given city who would go down to a skating rink to learn about a sport they never had any interest in before if they saw something advertised on TV, or who might just happen by the rink and wander in, but I think for the most part people who will go to a live event would be people who are already interested. Especially if it involves paying an entrance fee or traveling.

    So if whoever's organizing the educational opportunities wants to attract the widest audience, I think short bursts on TV are the way to reach the most people.

    I definitely think that seeing live skating at, say, novice level and above up close would be more exciting than watching on TV or from the upper levels of an arena. So if you can get casual fans down to rinkside, probably some of them will become more than just casual.

    And then do make the live demonstrations and the educational videos easily available for interested fans who want to learn more.

  5. #50
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    175

    Sine qua non: Elements and Quality

    I think Kaetlyn Osmond's Ice Palace skating club is in a unique position to promote Figure Skating. Being located in the middle of a popular mall, they can attract a crowd of miscellaneous viewers. However, I don't know what type of financial arrangement they have with mall management. If they must lease ice time, they may not be in a position to promote skating unless there was also a bigger financial goal to cover the cost, like acquiring new paying members.

  6. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    To reach general audiences who wouldn't even call themselves skating fans, short educational segments on TV broadcasts would probably read the most people at that level of interest.
    When I attended the Summer Olympics in London, before each event they showed an event guide on the screens in the arena. It was fairly basic, but it described format, scoring etc. For example when we saw the Rhythmic Gymnastics they described the 4 apparatus and basic skills that would be performed, the area of the floor, how many judges there were, what the judges were looking for etc. It was particularly helpful in the sports that we knew little or nothing about. Perhaps if they aired something like this at the beginning of a broadcast it would be helpful to the casual fan...most especially at the big competitions like Olympics, Worlds and Nationals.

  7. #52
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    The Brink of Insanity
    Posts
    667
    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    To reach general audiences who wouldn't even call themselves skating fans, short educational segments on TV broadcasts would probably read the most people at that level of interest.
    CTV used to broadcast a segment at the beginning of discipline's SP setting out the 8 required elements and what the judges were looking for on each. They would also have fluff pieces showing how to identify jumps, and again what the judges are looking for. For a while they also had Jean Senft doing a judge's segment, but I don't remember much about them.

    When CoP was introduced, they spent time at the beginning of each broadcast explaining how it worked. Tracy Wilson and Debbie Wilkes took the ISU technical specialist training to help with their commentary. Big difference from what happened in the US where the commentators still don't seem to have a clue about the scoring.

  8. #53
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,961
    About educating viewers, it's a tough sell any way you look at it. As much skating as I have watched live and on TV, I still generally can't tell one jump from another. Unless the announcer says, here comes a triple flip. Then I nod sagely and say, yup, that was a triple flip -- note the three turns entrance and the inside edge take-off. (Everybody say, ooo, an expert in the house! )

    Is it possible to teach such a numbskull the difference between a counter and a Chocktaw?

    In this video (its creator is in the U.S. Figure Skating Hall of fame, in the same class as Paul Wylie), is it possible to identify the particular turns and movements in the first 20 seconds? (Serious question.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBrALhb8uiQ#t=0m21s
    Last edited by Mathman; 12-04-2012 at 11:59 PM.

  9. #54
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    3,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Is it possible to teach such a numbskull the difference between a counter and a Chocktaw?
    Yes, because a counter is a one-foot turn and a choctaw changes feet at the same time it changes direction.

    Being able to distinguish between counters vs. rockers or brackets, or choctaws vs. mohawks, would be trickier.

    But none of these turns should be introduced in a first lesson on element recognition. Should I suggest a possible format for teaching turn recognition?

    In this video (its creator is in the U.S. Figure Skating Hall of fame, in the same class as Paul Wylie), is it possible to identify the particular turns and movements in the first 20 seconds? (Serious question.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBrALhb8uiQ#t=0m21s
    There are some recognizable three turns there, but some of the other steps are just simple strokes or two-foot nothings, at least nothing that real skaters on blades would be likely to do or give names to.

  10. #55
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Staring at the ocean and smiling.
    Posts
    15,115
    BTW, there is a Reference section in The Lutz Corner folder-

    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/for...319-References

    When a thread comes up that does a relatively decent job of explaining elements and steps, we store it there.

    And if you have a question about either scoring, or about elements, we hope you'll start a thread there.

  11. #56
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    3,753
    Here's a good place to start online for recognizing steps and elements: http://www.sk8stuff.com/m_recognize.htm

    What I'd like to do is put together some scripts for potential video segments explaining the basic skills to nonskaters.

    The time-consuming part would be finding clips to illustrate each point. If we were really a network producing these segments for broadcast, we'd just take a camera down to a rink and get some skaters to demonstrate each one.

  12. #57
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,158
    MM, pick a program, post the youtube and what section you want identified, and one of the skaters here can identify the steps and turns for you....I typically catalog them as I watch.

  13. #58
    Medalist
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    90
    In response to the original question, I have to say that I don't view competition that way. There is no one thing that I think a skater has to have in order to deserve to win a competition, because every competition is different.

  14. #59
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,961
    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    MM, pick a program, post the youtube and what section you want identified, and one of the skaters here can identify the steps and turns for you....I typically catalog them as I watch.
    I will take you up on that!

    Here is Mao Asada, Grand Prix Final short program just skated. Staring at about 2:12 she does ??? then a short bacjward spiral (?) then a couple of ???, then a triple loop.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZnHBWYwSfg#t=2m12s

    Gkelly beat me up about saying that skaters twitch back and forth. The last moves just before the jump are what I was referring to. The average viewer who is not watching her feet just sees a saucy swish of the backside.

  15. #60
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    27,961
    How about this?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hXcbgqsq8Q#t=2m0s

    To me this looks like a series of one-foot turns into the jump. Mao's transitions are more varied, but are they harder than Ashley's? Does Ashley get any credit for the stag jump right after the triple loop?

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •