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Thread: What's a Connection? Discussion inspired by NHK FD Thread.

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleoc View Post
    Thank you! Hope you all get to enjoy it (I've watched it several times on IN!).

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikiandorocks View Post
    You mean this ?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEz1xYVO-aw

    This is kind of one of the programs that remind me of the "clash of minds".
    Yes, that's the one program of theirs where I see them as clashing against each other -- in a totally over-the-top way.

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    I think if connection to Audience is a requirement, then being able to make the audience feel emotion is meeting 'connection to Audience' at the highest level and deserving of high PCS scores.[/QUOTE]

    When the audience gives a standing ovation, the audience obviously feels some emotion and connection to the performance, wouldn't you say?

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    I certainly would, particularly when the standing ovation is given in a country that is not the competitor's own, and more impressive if a standing O follows both the short and long programs/dances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    I think if connection to Audience is a requirement, then being able to make the audience feel emotion is meeting 'connection to Audience' at the highest level and deserving of high PCS scores.
    Depends. Canadian audiences give standing ovations to all their skaters, even if a performance was just this side of dreadful (only exceptional performances by skaters from other countries get them). Does that mean all the Canadian skaters are entitled to high PCS scores and the skaters who did not get them aren't?

    Doris is right---a standing ovation means more when it is not in a skater's home country.

  6. #81
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    "Weaver & Poje go back to drawing board"

    Weaver & Poje go back to drawing board
    By PJ Kwong
    Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 | 12:53 PM
    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskati...ing-board.html

    Link above has interview (video + print version) with W/P that was conducted a few days ago. They discuss not qualifying for GPF this year and fixing their FD.
    Last edited by golden411; 11-29-2012 at 04:26 PM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Weaver & Poje go back to drawing board
    By PJ Kwong Posted: Thursday, November 29, 2012 | 12:53 PM
    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskati...ing-board.html

    Link above has interview (video + print version) with W/P that was conducted a few days ago. They discuss not qualifying for GPF this year and fixing their FD.
    I copied this post over from the Canadian skaters thread because it is a good illustration of my frustration with the way the word "connection" is thrown around.

    Kaetlyn Weaver thinks the problem with her FD this year is that she was not feeling the connection to Andrew

    She is apparently unaware that there are darn few points for connection of any kind in COP, and connection to music & audience are more important , as the code is written, than connection to partner.

    I was at SkAm; IMO the main problem W&P had was that B&S are skating a lot better than they did last year, and so they were better than W&P at SkAm; that was the most important problem.

    The second problem I saw, which was with connection, was that neither the audience nor the skaters connected with the uninspiring music they chose to skate their Statue comes alive program.

    Also, although they have huge speed warming up, they skated that program slowly, in fact, slower than B&S skated theirs-this will affect your PCS every time.

    Finally, Andrew, of the people quoted in the article, had for my money the only sensible insight in the piece:

    Andrew Poje: "I thought it might have been the elements themselves. But the more we thought about it, we realized that it was the set-up into the elements in a lot of the cases and not the elements themselves."
    But what they seem to mostly be mulling over & "fixing" is "their connection," which is excellent if the music as right for them, as was "Je Suis Malade."

    I would submit they need to do something about the music. And about their TES & Transitions mark (which is what I think Andrew is speaking to). And their speed.

  8. #83
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    As a newbie to the forum I am finding this discussion fascinating. Doris's post above is directly relevant to a question that has been running through my mind which is: there seems to be a lot of talk among ice dance fans, and among the teams themselves, on the subject of connection, but how does the quality in fact translate into scores?

    Chuckm's link to the components explanations suggests that "connection" is only one factor among many that go into two PC categories, and it isn't particularly stressed in the rulebook, so it would appear to be a relatively minor factor in scoring. Yet there is a great deal of attention paid to "connection" here and on other skating sites, as far as dance is concerned.

    Is the emphasis a matter of tradition in the dance discipline, i.e., it is understood to be more important in dance than other disciplines, even if it is not explicitly spelled out in the rule book?

    If I was looking strictly at the rule book, I'd think that connection to the music, if good, would be worth what - a point or half point in the P/E and Interpretation component scores? Or do the judges assign more weight than that? A connection between the partners would seem to be less important given the text of the rules, but if a dance program tells a romantic story, I can see how the demonstration of a romantic or personal connection throughout the program would be an interpretive plus - worth how much in the P/E or Interpretation components? An extra .25 if it's good, more if very good? Or are the judges thinking in bigger numerical terms?

    I find the dance discipline fascinating, but grasping the scoring is still a challenge in some respects.

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    This is a very interesting thread!

    I hope that W/P read Doris' comments (or someone on their team!)....and/or I hope Andrew doesn't second guess himself and follows what he was saying. I'm not sure how I feel about the music - and, I only saw their SkAm performance....I think I am intrigued by the FD concept and want them to skate this lights out with all the tech; if they can't, then perhaps a major change including music (?). If I remember correctly, I quite enjoyed their SD (but maybe - this is my poor memory creeping in - thought they had too many music cuts/changes?...), and just thought they, like many, needed to work on those levels.

    Regardless, I do wish them well - and thinking about connection, which as we are learning here is complex and multi-faceted, I must admit I long for the kinds of interpersonal and team-audience connections they achieved last year. I was really mesmerized by their performances throughout the whole season, and was sweating with pure exhilaration by the end of season realizing what they accomplished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraV View Post
    If I was looking strictly at the rule book, I'd think that connection to the music, if good, would be worth what - a point or half point in the P/E and Interpretation component scores? Or do the judges assign more weight than that?
    In theory, according to the criteria, almost all of the Interpretation score should be based on the connection to the music.

    The first criterion relates the music to the skating skill (easy movement and sureness, not difficulty) and the fourth one relates it to the relationship between the partners. But none of them are completely separate from how the skater connects to the music.

    How much the ice dance judges actually judge it that way, I don't know.

    One point to note is that the timing of the steps etc. to the beats of the music can be very separate from the emotional connection to the music. I've seen skaters with blank facial expression staying absolutely on the beat, and skaters with very expressive faces and upper body movements connecting intensely to the overall feel of the music but failing to hit the beats accurate at all. So neither of them should score as high as someone who is connected to both the rhythm and the emotion.

  11. #86
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    Fascinating article, golden

    For me, what connection must have is the feeling that the skaters are inhabiting the same emotional space. If they aren't, it's rare that the piece will work. It doesn't need to be romantic. I can be adversarial (C/L's Requiem for a Dream, K/O's career), platonic (The Kerrs' Muse FD), theatrical (K/O again), playful (S/S' Pink Panther). Now, these are harder to note because romantic connection is so easy to observe relatively speaking, but they are equal. COP devalues connection, admittedly, but I do think it helps in performance, interpretation and the like.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Here's the ISU description of Components:

    http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

    There is no specific component description for "connection to one another"

    Under PERFORMANCE / EXECUTION:

    "The skater radiates energy resulting in an invisible connection with the audience."

    Under INTERPRETATION:

    "Relationship between the partners reflecting the character of the music.
    Interpretive unison is an equal partnership with the same degree of sensitivity between
    partners not only to the music, but also to the equal understanding of the music’s
    nuances. There is an intimacy between the partners that is characterized by a feeling of
    “surrender” to the music and possibly to each other that creates an entity greater than the
    two of them.
    "

    The connection MUST be to the music, but CAN be to each other.

    V/M's programs seem primarily to be about connection to each other. ...
    The way I read the ISU language is different. For explanatory purposes, where I would add emphasis in the Interpretation section is:
    "There is an intimacy between the partners ..."
    One of Merriam-Webster's definitions of "connection" is "a relation of personal intimacy (as of family ties)," so "connection" and "intimacy" are practically interchangeable words, in my opinion.  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/connection

    Note that the way the ISU sentence is written, "possibly" refers back specifically to "surrender." In other words, I believe the intended meaning is:
    "There is an intimacy between the partners that is characterized by a feeling of "surrender" to the music and possibly "surrender" to each other that creates an entity greater than the two of them."

    In other words, "intimacy between the partners" is required, but the intimacy with each other does not have to be in the form of "surrender" to each other.
    [I am not clear on what exactly "surrender" is supposed to mean, but I'm thinking that Audrey/Tessa and Fred/Scott showed romantic intimacy between themselves as well as surrender to the music -- creating an entity greater than the two of them. I would not describe their romantic intimacy as "surrender to each other" -- which the criteria do not require.)

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