What's a Connection? Discussion inspired by NHK FD Thread. | Page 2 | Golden Skate

What's a Connection? Discussion inspired by NHK FD Thread.

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
This is one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum! I love your perceptive insight and analysis of these two teams. And I think you're absolutely right. Few have explained so well the source of Meryl & Charlie's strength as a team.

I agree their connection is cerebral/soulful. Ultimately, I feel it flows directly from the music. Whatever is in the music, they distill and express outward again through movement, rather purely. The emphasis is on the expression of shared emotion, more than on the "performance" as an entity of its own, separate from the music.

Loving people's thoughts on this. Yes ITA with the "expression of shared emotion."

Mr. P said what he likes about Meryl and Charlie is that regardless of the music Meryl and Charlie perform it in a way that is compelling. He watched the NHK FD on YouTube and he said while he did not care for the Norte Dame music, the way Meryl and Charlie danced to that music is what drove him to watch it until the end.
 

Apple Pi

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
In my opinion, Meryl and Charlie are not good actors, in the sense that they have a hard time faking emotion. It has to feel real to them on some level. I think this is especially true for Charlie.

But the fact that these emotions are real, and not artificially heightened, shines through and elevates their performances.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
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Good on Mr. P!

Meryl & Charlie's Not Touching Sequences are some of their moves that initially caught my eye, starting with their Beyond The Sea exhibition.

They are always two people, but clearly connected through the invisible bonds of music. I've always found that fascinating.And like the Chinese divers, the coordination is amazing--this year's circular sequence in Giselle & the Bollywood sequence are particularly wonderful, for me.


OTOH, I've always seen Tessa & Scott's most impressive strength to be the quality of their steps in hold, two people connected so that the music is almost coincidental, a background to their personal relationship. This appearance is aided by the closeness with which they skate, and the amount of detail they add with facial expressions and arms, as well as their lovely leg extension.

I'm really enjoying this discussion, by the way.

What I love best in dance is when the skaters connect me to the music more closely, so that I perceive things in the music that I missed before.

Both couples can do that.
 

tulosai

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Dec 21, 2011
I don't think the lift positions V/M get into are necessarily ugly (well, with the exception of the crotch-face one, which is just plain tawdry no matter how you try to justify it with elaborate psycho-sexual interpretations), but they are so cumbersome to get into that they completely break the flow of the program (at least for me). And it's a shame, because it really is a fascinating program and a lovely break from their ooey-gooey romanticism.

I really think this is it. They are trying to do more acrobatic lifts (I guess to keep pace with everyone else) but in reality they are not suited to these lifts. They are too close in height and Tessa is too heavy relative to Scott's build (please understand I am NOT saying she is heavy generally, I am NOT one of the people here who think she needs to lose weight).

They used to do lifts that were suited to them and their builds. Their swan lift from Mahler was amazing and actually something they could handle with relative ease. Dance lifts do not NEED to be acrobatic to receive level 4 or high GOE. However you do have to be more creative about them, perhaps. One would think Zoueva would be up to the challenge.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Good on Mr. P!

Meryl & Charlie's Not Touching Sequences are some of their moves that initially caught my eye, starting with their Beyond The Sea exhibition.

They are always two people, but clearly connected through the invisible bonds of music. I've always found that fascinating.And like the Chinese divers, the coordination is amazing--this year's circular sequence in Giselle & the Bollywood sequence are particularly wonderful, for me.


OTOH, I've always seen Tessa & Scott's most impressive strength to be the quality of their steps in hold, two people connected so that the music is almost coincidental, a background to their personal relationship. This appearance is aided by the closeness with which they skate, and the amount of detail they add with facial expressions and arms, as well as their lovely leg extension.

I'm really enjoying this discussion, by the way.

What I love best in dance is when the skaters connect me to the music more closely, so that I perceive things in the music that I missed before.

Both couples can do that.

I am enjoying this conversation too! Is there a way we can take the posts from this thread and make it it's on thread on The Edge? I feel we've moved beyond NHK Trophy FD at this point. :)
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Now let's add a complication.

When people refer to "connection" vis-a-vis pairs and dance skating, they generally refer to a romantic connection between two people. Of course not always, but generally I think that is the case. So, where do a brother/sister team figure into this discussion?

Another direction to consider. In the movie "The Turning Point," all about ballet dancers, a choreographer tells the up-and-coming baby ballerina (and I'm paraphrasing here since it's been a long time since I watched the movie), "You're not playing some uptight village virgin in this; you're just a body moving to music. You just dance." Is such a program possible in the conservative world of figure skating? Or would people complain of the lack of "connection" between the skaters?
 

FSGMT

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Joined
Sep 10, 2012
I think that the connection is something you can improve, but it mainly depends (as many of you said) on your style. I agree that D/W don't have a connection as great as V/M's, I think that there is a lot of connection between the Shibs, too, for example... But I think that a "connection" is not something you can watch when a couple is skating, it's something that you feel, almost an emotion that they can pass on. And when I watch D/W I feel like I'm watching two single dancers skating beautifully together (and this, I think, is why many people are saying that they don't have a great connection), they do exactly what they have to do: they watch into each other's eyes, they are synchronized, but there's something more that I feel when I watch V/M or the Shibs or C/L... Connection? I don't know how to call it, but I feel, considering the aspect of what they are abel to create between them, something more. Is it just me?
(And I'm not saying that D/W should change it: it's their own style, and it's OK, and they don't have to change it, there are many things in their skating that V/M don't have...)
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
This is one of the best conversations we've ever had on the site, I think. Everyone's come up with such helpful insights. One of the things we've managed to pin down here is that there's more than one way to convey union and connection. It reminds me that there's also more than one way for a fan to connect to skaters.

I really love that metaphor of the synchronized diving. It does add understanding to the way skaters who are longtime partners are able to define themselves in space with such—well, synchronicity! At its best, it almost seems as if the athletes in question have magical powers, doesn't it.

Both of these remarkable couples, V/M and D/W, have one thing going for them that I wish were more common in both ice dancing and pairs skating: a longterm relationship. It need not be romantic off the ice, but it does need to be just this side of telepathic. Every time I hear of yet another set of skaters breaking up and switching, I feel sad that the skaters have to start again from scratch.
 

chuckm

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Aug 31, 2003
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Here's the ISU description of Components:

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-152086-169302-64121-0-file,00.pdf

There is no specific component description for "connection to one another"

Under PERFORMANCE / EXECUTION:

"The skater radiates energy resulting in an invisible connection with the audience."


Under INTERPRETATION:

"Relationship between the partners reflecting the character of the music.
Interpretive unison is an equal partnership with the same degree of sensitivity between
partners not only to the music, but also to the equal understanding of the music’s
nuances. There is an intimacy between the partners that is characterized by a feeling of
“surrender” to the music and possibly to each other that creates an entity greater than the
two of them.
"

The connection MUST be to the music, but CAN be to each other.

V/M's programs seem primarily to be about connection to each other.

That may be the problem with Weaver/Poje's FS this season. It's all about their interpersonal connection instead of connection with the music, which in any case is forgettable.
 
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dorispulaski

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That's a very important point, chuckm, that helps to understand the scoring.

And it does bring up a question. When viewing connection in that light, I would say that Meryl and Charlie's connection to polka music, is one of the very best of this year where "Polka" is the main requirement for the SD, Consequently, when considering this definition of connection, I'd be hard pressed to say they didn't have a really good connection. What do the rest of you think?
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
Now let's add a complication.

When people refer to "connection" vis-a-vis pairs and dance skating, they generally refer to a romantic connection between two people. Of course not always, but generally I think that is the case. So, where do a brother/sister team figure into this discussion?

Another direction to consider. In the movie "The Turning Point," all about ballet dancers, a choreographer tells the up-and-coming baby ballerina (and I'm paraphrasing here since it's been a long time since I watched the movie), "You're not playing some uptight village virgin in this; you're just a body moving to music. You just dance." Is such a program possible in the conservative world of figure skating? Or would people complain of the lack of "connection" between the skaters?

Glad you asked. :biggrin:

Seriously though, Maia and Alex definitely do have a connection. It's quite hard to explain it. I think it's the fact they have been in partnership so long there's sort of an intuition between the two and that is shown in their dancing.

It's actually most apparent to me when they are going through a tough time, like when Alex was injured at COR during their FD:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jM-TAIDeZI You can tell Maia was trying to overcompensate in her performance to perk Alex up so he could get through his pain and you can tell Alex persisted because of that willingness by Maia to get him through the FD and in the end, I think you can see tell the audience (and the Italian commentators for that matter) were quite touched by their persistence and unity.

When they are happy, however, that connection shows also -- best example, I think is from their 2011 Nationals performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJJI8xkgG90 There's a warmness to their dance that is clearly extended to the audience, who gave a standing ovation. (Doris was there, maybe she could explain more?)
 

dorispulaski

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And their timing is so wonderful, that if they are not in physical trouble (Alex at CoR or 4CC's) that they are always connected to the music.

And then there are the Duchesnays.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
That's a very important point, chuckm, that helps to understand the scoring.

And it does bring up a question. When viewing connection in that light, I would say that Meryl and Charlie's connection to polka music, is one of the very best of this year where "Polka" is the main requirement for the SD, Consequently, when considering this definition of connection, I'd be hard pressed to say they didn't have a really good connection. What do the rest of you think?

I totally agree. I feel so lucky I got to see that live! There was definitely a unified lightness and coordination in that dance that definitely brought the audience in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPZTL_zBg4o&feature=related

Here's a photo my husband took: http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/178431_10151072871211975_1224812142_o.jpg

They just look so at ease with each other --- you have to have a connection to be at such ease, I'd say.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
And their timing is so wonderful, that if they are not in physical trouble (Alex at CoR or 4CC's) that they are always connected to the music.

And then there are the Duchesnays.

Yes, their FD was a lot better at NHK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7cklWiLb-w

I like how every movement, be it their arms, legs or lifts are timed perfectly to the music. And I do like they are a lot more introspective, though still have that warmness as well. The audience clearly felt connected to them -- they got a partial standing o for the dance. You could say it's because it's a Japanese crowd....but I think they just felt connected.
 

fwsf

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
The connection MUST be to the music, but CAN be to each other.

I think connection to music is the minimum MUST. On top of connection to music AND add on creating the connection to each other really bring the couple to the next level. Husband and wife, involved couple teams do have the advantage over other teams for intimacy (no acting required). I wonder what Charlie and Tenith team will look like even with Meryl probably a better skater.
 
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WeakAnkles

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Aug 1, 2011
I think connection to music is the minimum MUST. On top of connection to music AND add on creating the connection to each other really bring the couple to the next level. Husband and wife, involved couple teams do have the advantage over other teams for intimacy (no acting required). I wonder what Charlie and Tenith team will look like even with Meryl probably a better skater.

Actually when I took that acting class one thing we all learned very quickly is that it isn't necessarily enough to *feel* any particular emotion. The real test is the ability to SHOW it. Charlie may be head over heels in love with Tanith and still have a hard time showing that emotion within a performance context.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
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Dec 27, 2009
And their timing is so wonderful, that if they are not in physical trouble (Alex at CoR or 4CC's) that they are always connected to the music.

And then there are the Duchesnays.

How about the Kerrs (previously) or the Reeds?
 
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