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Thread: Plushenko won't bother with figure skating Grand Prix season: by Rosie DiManno

  1. #31
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    For starters, you are taking this article out of context and way too seriously. This is not serious journalism. Chan's comments were friendly rivalry. Afterall Patrick Chan is quite a few years younger than Plushenko and the man to beat as it were. I am sure Plushenko would be saying the same things had he stuck around for the past few years. All skaters make comments from time to time. I did not find the article that damaging towards Plushenko. Also there are many men in the field who are going to give Plushenko a run for his money, besides Patrick Chan.

  2. #32
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    The most "offensive" part about this article is the author speaks the truth but in a twisted way. This is the most dangerous type of article which will lead many people who do not follow the Sports having the wrong impression about a person's character. Portraying a great athlete as a arrogant ******* will make the one who beat him a hero. I suppose that is what this lady is aiming for.

    Besides, it is about GPF, Plushenko is not in it, why always drag him into articles? Let alone use half of the article to portray this "arrogant *******". She's overdone it.

    As for Chan's answer, I really did not take offensive since well, Chan is just being...Chan. Yes, APPARENTLY Chan was joking, but it was a bad joke, I hope he knows that. Being funny is one thing, being irreverence is another. I am sure that he is not intentional to be irreverence. But as a grown-up man, he should have his own judgement on this.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-06-2012 at 07:10 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladskater View Post
    For starters, you are taking this article out of context and way too seriously. This is not serious journalism. Chan's comments were friendly rivalry. Afterall Patrick Chan is quite a few years younger than Plushenko and the man to beat as it were. I am sure Plushenko would be saying the same things had he stuck around for the past few years. All skaters make comments from time to time. I did not find the article that damaging towards Plushenko. Also there are many men in the field who are going to give Plushenko a run for his money, besides Patrick Chan.
    I do not think this article will make any damage to Plushenko. If he had time to read it, he probably would just laugh at it. And it would not damage the image of him among his fans since they all know who he truly is. No damage done to other skater's fans since well, they do not care.

    But face it, if this article is just a bit less ridiculous and leaves Chan's comments out, the tune here would be discussing how arrogant Plushenko is, since her assumption about Plushenko is not new at all. You can find the same opinions here. You probably would argue that since people here already assumed the worse, why so offended by hers? Well, posters here are expressing their own opinions as a fan of figure skating. The author of this article is to portray a person using her influence as a journalist (or at least she used to be one).

    At the end of the day, only fans got hurt I guess. But that is what is take for being a fan. And being fans, we have the right to speak up!

  4. #34
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    Plushenko is old relative to the rest of the current amateur skaters. So is Brian Joubert. Heck, Michelle Kwan was already considered "old" at 22 when she won her fifth world title.
    Plushenko was old by fans and media in Vancouver too, an age that Abott, Joubert, Verner, Daisuke and Lysacek have reached or about to reach too, but I dont see articles pointing out how old they are or how impressive they skate despite their age. Truth is that he is older than the rest but it 's been written so much and so repetitive since he was coming back in 2009 when he was 26-27 that it is just an uninspired comment. All the above men will be older in Sochi than he was in Vancouver but I would cringe if someone was calling Daisuke old by Sochi time. So I dont see the point in an article. Hongbo was 37 at Vancouver and I didnt see a dozen of articles pointing it out, even if in pairs they get to compete further than 30 he was stil old.Besides how the body strength of an athlete preserves I suppose is different for each person.

    Btw, they are now many skaters who grew up with watching Plush, ex. Misha Ge or Hanyu but in their interviews the age difference is mentioned in a total different way. That article reminds me of the gossip shows we have on Tv, they know little of nothing and they talk about everything, but it has nothing to do with Chan, rather the journalist.

  5. #35
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    I think Chan heard and repeated so many times Plushenko was old that he isn't able to realize Abbott, Joubert or Daisuke aren't very young either. Probably because Plushenko was very young when he started to compete in seniors and he's been around since...forever. When I first read Johnny Weir was inspired by Pushenko to pursue a FS career, I was , because I know Johnny isn't much younger than Evgeni, it is difficult to understand that somebody you were watching on TV when you were a kid isn't that old afterall.

  6. #36
    I'm out. aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Plushenko was old by fans and media in Vancouver too, an age that Abott, Joubert, Verner, Daisuke and Lysacek have reached or about to reach too, but I dont see articles pointing out how old they are or how impressive they skate despite their age. Truth is that he is older than the rest but it 's been written so much and so repetitive since he was coming back in 2009 when he was 26-27 that it is just an uninspired comment. All the above men will be older in Sochi than he was in Vancouver but I would cringe if someone was calling Daisuke old by Sochi time. So I dont see the point in an article. Hongbo was 37 at Vancouver and I didnt see a dozen of articles pointing it out, even if in pairs they get to compete further than 30 he was stil old. Besides how the body strength of an athlete preserves I suppose is different for each person.
    It's because Plushenko has been medaling at major international (senior) events since 1998 and won his first World title in 2001. He won the silver behind Yagudin in 2002 which was a decade ago and some consider those ten years equivalent to two skating generations. He's been a major force in skating between those years, even when Joubert won his first World title in 2007 and Daisuke won the silver medal behind him.

    So yes, I stand by my comments that he is old compared to the majority of the current crop of amateur skaters because it is true. But because he's been such a dominant fixture for so long, it's hard not to talk about his age. Am I defending the writer? Heck no! I'm simply pointing out that even at 30, it seems like Plushenko has been on the skating scene forever, whereas Joubert and Takahashi have been at the top of their game for ~ five years. And Abbott? No one outside of skating knows who he is because he hasn't really ... won anything major. (Apologies in advance, but it's true.)

    Same thing about Michelle Kwan (yes, reference to her again). In the early 2004-2005 season, the one of the American networks made a super-short fluff piece of her talking about her "being older." And she was only 24. Again, it's because she started competing at the senior level when she was 14 (~ten years). Watch here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdM6yxjYli0

    As for the media not pointing out Hongbo's age, that is absolutely not true. It was just said in the way that inspired hope since he and Xue had been disappointed the previous two Olympic cycles. His and Xue's willingness to come back and try for that one title that they needed to complete their collection (note that Plushenko already earned a gold in 2006 when he was making his comeback for the 2010 Olympics) was honestly a story/new article begging to be written; something warm and fuzzy for people to believe in "the spirit of the Olympics" and whatnot.

    From 2010: "Older and Better, Chinese Couple Dominates Pairs Short Program" -- http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/15/sp...s/15skate.html
    From December 4, 2012 (two days ago, Pang/Tong): "They're not old; just very experienced" -- http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/sports/...t_15986736.htm
    Last edited by aftertherain; 12-06-2012 at 05:15 AM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    I think Chan heard and repeated so many times Plushenko was old that he isn't able to realize Abbott, Joubert or Daisuke aren't very young either. Probably because Plushenko was very young when he started to compete in seniors and he's been around since...forever. When I first read Johnny Weir was inspired by Pushenko to pursue a FS career, I was , because I know Johnny isn't much younger than Evgeni, it is difficult to understand that somebody you were watching on TV when you were a kid isn't that old afterall.
    Yes, and I read somewhere that in 2002, the Chinese media referring Plushenko as an "old athlete (老将) (literally translated from Chinese, but they tend to call all experienced and well known athletes that way regardless of the age)", though in fact he was only 19 years old It is a good laugh. Just saying, in this case it is a respectful way calling someone "old" because it has nothing to do with the actual age.

  8. #38
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Plushenko was old by fans and media in Vancouver too, an age that Abott, Joubert, Verner, Daisuke and Lysacek have reached or about to reach too, but I dont see articles pointing out how old they are or how impressive they skate despite their age. Truth is that he is older than the rest but it 's been written so much and so repetitive since he was coming back in 2009 when he was 26-27 that it is just an uninspired comment. All the above men will be older in Sochi than he was in Vancouver but I would cringe if someone was calling Daisuke old by Sochi time. So I dont see the point in an article. Hongbo was 37 at Vancouver and I didnt see a dozen of articles pointing it out, even if in pairs they get to compete further than 30 he was stil old.Besides how the body strength of an athlete preserves I suppose is different for each person.

    Btw, they are now many skaters who grew up with watching Plush, ex. Misha Ge or Hanyu but in their interviews the age difference is mentioned in a total different way. That article reminds me of the gossip shows we have on Tv, they know little of nothing and they talk about everything, but it has nothing to do with Chan, rather the journalist.
    Although Takahashi and Joubert are very accomplished skaters, I think they probably lack Plushenko's stature in the sport; their record in major events is not as strong. Verner, Abbott and Lysacek certainly aren't thought of as having comparable achievements to Plushenko. Abbott and Lysacek have had considerably shorter careers and although Joubert, Verner and Takahashi have been around for a comparable number of seasons to Plushenko, these seasons were consecutive, which makes it seem as though their careers have not been as long as Plushenko. Plushenko, along with Pang and Tong, is the only skater left from the 1990s. Taken together, it does make him seem as though he's considerably older than the others.

    Though FWIW, I'm starting to see more of elder statesman type articles about Joubert, too. And like you, I think that the problem in the article isn't what Chan said so much as what DiManno wrote.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by one4V&M View Post
    As a Patrick fan, if Yuzuru said that, I would chalk it up to good old fashion "trash talk," isn't that what athletes do in sports? And I have never understood all the criticism over Patrick's comments in the past or in this article because I always thought it was "trash talk." Some people, not all, are just way too sensitive and it makes me wonder if they're fans of other sports because Patrick's comments would be considered tame, if he was a basketball player.
    Generally, I agree: no one would bat an eye at this if these athletes were in any other sport. I don't exactly approve of everything the dude's said, but these over-the-top reactions somehow just make me root for him more.

    It doesn't even sound like Chan was intending to trash talk in this case. It sounds like either mild humour, or the kind of casual exaggeration that young people often make when they converse with each other. The comedian Louis C.K. did a bit on how Americans, "go right to the top with our words" when talking to each other (and it happens in Canada, too). A bucket of chicken wings is called "amazing" and anything slightly amusing is "hilarious." It's a way of keeping others' interest or being slightly humorous. This sounds like the same kind of thing:"Wow, he's like, 36 years old; that's incredible."

  10. #40
    The King has arrived - no questions! plushyta's Avatar
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    I remember well, how the same Rosie DiManno, wrote true panegyrics about Plushy in 2006 and 2009/10 (before Oly!) ... interesting is her transformation, in an ordinary offensive tabloid "patriotic" blotter

  11. #41
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Somebody has changed the title of thread...No matter, but I would like to show other case, whe the Canadian media wasn't too elegante to Plush. Do you remember this voting?
    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskati...e-skating.html

    Look at their pictures,,I don't think, that the CBC didn't find a better pictures about Plushy.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Because if these were actual quotes, she would have reported them as such
    She did. His words are in the quotation marks as direct speech in that article, the same as Plu's words, which are btw accurate. Why should anyone assumes that in case of Plu she quoted his words correctly, but in case of Chan she faked it. Kind of lame and desperate explanation I observe here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ Nah. Chan is in the clear. The lady is tying to sell newspapers. *yawn*
    Which "The lady"? Besides DiManno that is in OP, I mentioned three other sources: one- Canadian "CalgaryHerald" where Chan said he is unbeatable when he jumps, two- Russian championship.com where he said that PCS has always been his strongest point (holy "true" btw!) and was "funning" about those who attemp 4S and 4T, three- Japanese Nikkei where he said that his rivals in Sochi are Plu and Dai and all the rest are young and inexperienced. So, which "The lady" exactly you are refering too?

  13. #43
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Somebody has changed the title of thread...No matter, but I would like to show other case, whe the Canadian media wasn't too elegante to Plush. Do you remember this voting?

    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskati...e-skating.html

    Look at their pictures,,I don't think, that the CBC didn't find a better pictures about Plushy.
    The funniest thing is that the pictures show Lysacek as the soulful artiste.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilywang View Post
    This article is so ridiculous that I cannot help laughing when she drops the name of Tolstoy. Oh boy, rational people are all boringly alike, but every lunatic is fascinating in his/her own way. She would make a fine Countess Lidiya Ivanovna.

    She should really take Tolstoy's words, "All, everything that I understand, I understand only because I love. " But I guess she just loves trash-talking.
    THIS! As the original poster Plushyfan also mentions. Say what you like about Plushenko and Chan, but when you get on my Leo's case, now that's going too far!

    Tolstoy's full vision of life made him the Plushenko of novelists.

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    When I read the article I was kind of surprised that the Toronto Star was sending one of its signature writers to cover the GPF. (Every day, I go through the Toronto newspapers in the vain hope that there will be an article on figure skating so I nearly fell off my kitchen chair when I saw that there was one yesterday.) I suspect that she will be filing a story a day. (Today, her article was on hand holding in the pairs skating. lol. Yup, this woman has depth.) She tends to push the envelope in her writing and that is what her readers like, but she is actually, IMO, no where near as distasteful as some of the other writers at that newspaper are.

    I was not at all surprised at the article, knowing the newspaper, being familiar with the writer and her relationship with figure skaters. The articles speak more of her character rather than about anything she writes.

    But: Add Patrick to the mix, and there is a perfect storm for journalistic plunder by a newspaper that excels in its art (in a certain way). Patrick says too often what he should not say, not understanding that it can be twisted out of context. Fact is: most, if not all, skaters are cold-blooded competitive characters when they size up their competition. In news conferences, the sugar-coated polite responses that get churned out, we often know are not really the real answers to the questions that are asked. Patrick has never been shell-proofed (as it appears many of the other skaters have) for answering questions. Nevertheless, we really don't want to hear people's honesty always. Some inner thoughts are outwardly rude and should just not be said, especially to writers like DiManno. In my respectful opinion, what she wrote should not have been written even if it was said.

    People who know of Patrick personally know of him as a very decent person. He is perhaps naively too trusting of the press and, as a result, he is the perfect victim for writers like DiManno. He should, however, be better coached on how to deal with press, because this is not the first time his words have been mangled. As a confessed Chanaholic from Toronto, I admit that even I sometimes cringe at his responses, but I also know that he really is, behind it all, a very decent person.

    I blame the Star, I blame DiManno, but I don't blame Chan for what was written in the article.

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    Quote Originally Posted by itoja View Post
    Lets imagine, for example Yuzuru Hanyu saying about Patrick Chan: “I think I feared him at the beginning. On the ice with him, that was almost like being in a time capsule. I was actually more impressed with him in practice than in the competition. I thought to myself, ‘Wow, he’s doing a lot better than I had expected.’ He can land all his jumps in practice, which is pretty good for someone who has — what? — 3, 4 falls per competition.’’
    Nothing wrong, just the truth
    It's not the truth! No one has 3, 4 falls per competition. Speaking about falls, are you talking about Patrick or Hanyu himself? Here is a difference: Saying someone older and still could skate and jump like that, it was a praise. Saying someone has 3, 4 falls per competition is a malicious slander. Had Patrick said Plushenko is someone who has one fall per competition, that could be a reason to be outraged.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 12-06-2012 at 09:54 AM.

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