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Thread: 2012 2013 JGPF Men's Short program Junior Grand Prix Final SP

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jChamp View Post
    ...but not really.

    Protocols are up. Farris' BV was almost 2 points higher than Kovtun.

    That's where the difference is.
    No way. Some local sofa specialists told me that taking BV as a proof is for unknowledgable people only. I am having fun to see how things got turned 180 when another guy is "on the table."

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Ah... a new "points"- balletic contrast to classic male presentation. Yeah, that is what guys should do to win. Step-outs, falls- doesn't matter. Just give a ballerina stuff and you are in.
    Ballet is much harder to do on ice than classic male presentation, which is a lot about posing and a lack of transitional elements, which leads to lower levels in footwork. Besides, Maxim made a mistake on the 3F and it got an edge call. His spins were also rushed and so they lost levels.

    However, I don't think Joshua should have gotten a 0 or a -1 on the 3A but a strict -2. I also think his StSq should have been a level 3.
    Last edited by draqq; 12-06-2012 at 09:50 AM.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by draqq View Post
    Ballet is much harder to do on ice than classic male presentation, which is a lot about posing and a lack of transitional elements,
    Did you read what you just said? A classic male presentation is stuff with posing and no transition. Broken record. Yawn.

  4. #49
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    I think they should be both around 74. Kovtun did not get levels on spins -pity. Looking forward for FP

  5. #50
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    Maxpalych was robbed and he should be in the lead now with a small gap. I also diasgree with the 4th position of Hino, he should be on the 3rd where Brown is now relaxing pulled out by PCS scam.


    I am very proud of my countrymen who gave a coldshower treat to the fake SP leader. Welcome to Sochi! Almost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Did you read what you just said? A classic male presentation is stuff with posing and no transition. Broken record. Yawn.
    I don't mind being a broken record if I'm right. Not my problem if you don't like facts. Both Farris and Kovtun received pretty much the same PCS scores anyway, about a point difference. The main difference came in the level calls, but I would be suspect given that the technical caller was likely American (Susan Lynch?).

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by draqq View Post
    I don't mind being a broken record if I'm right. Not my problem if you don't like facts. Both Farris and Kovtun received pretty much the same PCS scores anyway, about a point difference. The main difference came in the level calls, but I would be suspect given that the technical caller was likely American (Susan Lynch?).
    Oh, please, anyway can say "I am right", "I am the one who knows facts", etc. Come up with something constructive. And "pretty much the same" is not the same as "the same." That a point difference can make poeple won Olympics (Vancouver). Hey, your original argument was about better balletic presentation over classic male ones with posing and no transitions. Now you switched into talking about levels and conspiracy in Tech squad. Nice.

  8. #53
    More or less: more is more sequinsgalore's Avatar
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    All videos are uploaded on ISU's Youtube channel.
    Here is the playlist for Junior Men.

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    MEN'S SHORT PROGRAM - VIDEOS & RESULT

    1. Joshua FARRIS (USA) - 74.53 Short Program
    2. Maxim KOVTUN (RUS) - 72.53 Short Program
    3. Jason BROWN (USA) - 69.43 Short Program
    4. Ryuju HINO (JPN) - 67.55 Short Program
    5. Keiji TANAKA (JPN) - 61.74 Short Program
    6. Boyang JIN (CHN) - 60.73 Short Program

  10. #55
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    The scores are fine. Kovtun had a spin out on his 3f mind you, so really the mistakes are similar, and he did not get all the levels. I'm fine with the placements. If anyone was robbed it was Hino, who was the only one to have a clean skate. Anyways, Farris and Kovtun are both great but very different, Kovtun reminds me of Lysacek and Farris a mix of Chan/Abbott. Each man has his own strengths. The FS should be exciting.

    Glad Jason landed the 3a and got full rotation. His jumps are still small though.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Oh, please, anyway can say "I am right", "I am the one who knows facts", etc. Come up with something constructive. And "pretty much the same" is not the same as "the same." That a point difference can make poeple won Olympics (Vancouver). Hey, your original argument was about better balletic presentation over classic male ones with posing and no transitions. Now you switched into talking about levels and conspiracy in Tech squad. Nice.
    I use evidence from what is shown in the protocols. You haven't used a single piece of evidence yet apart from your obviously biased favor for your Russian countrymen.

    My original note is that Joshua has a balletic contrast to Maxim, which is blatantly apparent in the SP. While ballet movement is harder on ice, it can lack charismatic power, which is why I don't mind the thin difference in the PCS.

    However, since you're arguing that Maxim should have a higher score than Joshua, we have to look at the TCS. I'm actually on your side when it comes to the levels Farris received, which I think was too high on the step sequence, and he should have received a -2 across the board for his 3A. Maxim, however, did make a mistake on the 3F and had the incorrect edge entry into the jump. He also lost levels on the spins and footwork because some positions weren't held long enough and the edge transitions weren't as cleanly performed.

  12. #57
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    Happy to see Jason landed his 3A. Not textbook, but getting there! It had pretty decent height. Too bad about the 3F, I love that he is doing it with a tano!

    Anyway, don't really have an issue with the scores. I think Josh would still be in the lead even if you mark down some of the levels. The music in Maxim's program doesn't quite do it for me as I feel it doesn't really match the style he's showing on the ice.

    Hoping these guys can continue to do well in the long!

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by draqq View Post
    I use evidence from what is shown in the protocols.
    You are not consistent with your claims. Now you call protocols "evidence" but before and ironically later in this very post I am quoting you claimed that protocols are incorrect. Which leads to the only logical conclusion possible- you are biased and are using protocols as "evidence" only when you find them convinient to back up your claims, and not when you do not. Lame, dear. Peope disagree with scores and judging all the time on forums, so leave you "protocols-evidence" argument somewhere there if you want to be taken seriously. The guy without clean 3A, which is the toughest element in junior SP, should not be in the lead if there is another guy who did the jump, as well as was quite close in other stuff, if Farris didn't get gift-levels from Tech squad. I didn't say Kovtun should be in the lead with 10 points. I said he should be with a small gap.
    My countrymen? Oh, yeah, the audience often support locals better than all the rest. Normal thing. But they normally didn't go dead silent unless the clear scam took place. Now feel free to start blahblah-ing how dumb and biased the audience in Iceberg is.

  14. #59
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    I think the score difference between Hino and Brown is more discussion worthy than that of Kovtun and Farris. Jason did a messy 2f and Hino had a clean skate. Josh's 3a step out garnered about the same -GOE as Kovtun's 3lip with a turnout - that is fair, and so the remaining difference came down to levels, PCS margin is hardly relevant. Hino was the only guy that skated clean and he's in 4th...if anyone wuzrobbed its him. Brown is a good skater but I don't agree with his PCS marks being comparable to Kovtun and Farris, who are pretty clearly the class of this field IMO.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I think the score difference between Hino and Brown is more discussion worthy than that of Kovtun and Farris. Jason did a messy 2f and Hino had a clean skate. Josh's 3a step out garnered about the same -GOE as Kovtun's 3lip with a turnout - that is fair, and so the remaining difference came down to levels, PCS margin is hardly relevant. Hino was the only guy that skated clean and he's in 4th...if anyone wuzrobbed its him. Brown is a good skater but I don't agree with his PCS marks being comparable to Kovtun and Farris, who are pretty clearly the class of this field IMO.
    Eh, Brown and Hino's PCS marks are right I'd say. Until today, Hino's personal best PCS score in the SP was 27 (he got 29.35 here). Hino has the jumps, but needs work on the PCS side, so I'm not surprised they're lower than Brown's. As for Brown, the mistake on the 2f didn't really affect the program components of the program, so I don't think it warrants a much lower score than he's received historically (he got 32 and change at his last JGP).

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