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Thread: 2012 GPF Men's Short Program

  1. #76
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    I think Chan got -3 GOE from turning 3Lz into 2Lz, but he got a little positive GOE somewhere for this combo.

  2. #77
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    I'm more of a Dai fan but I love Chan's short program the best. If Chan holds it together he would win since he has the best long imo this season.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by lavender View Post
    I'm more of a Dai fan but I love Chan's short program the best. If Chan holds it together he would win since he has the best long imo this season.
    I agree, I love his program.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I think Chan got -3 GOE from turning 3Lz into 2Lz, but he got a little positive GOE somewhere for this combo.
    The minimum combo required is a 3-2 or 2-3, so 2Lz+3T it's correct, it shouldn't receive a negative GOE because he turned the 3Lz into a 2Lz; actually, if he landed the 3T well, the GOE should have been a positive one! He fairly received -2 because of the step-out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    I think Chan got -3 GOE from turning 3Lz into 2Lz, but he got a little positive GOE somewhere for this combo.
    Actually, the requirement for a jump combination in the SP is a minimum of one triple and one double jump - it doesn't matter which one is first or second. Chan executed a Double Lutz + Triple Toe combo, which fulfilled the SP requirement. As a result, the negative GOE here does not have to be a mandatory -3; however, due to the step out on the Triple Toe, 8 of the 9 judges chose to give him -2 for the overall execution of the combo which was the right call.

    So it is incorrect to say he received negative GOE on this element for doubling the Lutz. In fact, had he landed his Triple Toe properly, the element would have likely received positive GOE overall.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    The minimum combo required is a 3-2 or 2-3, so 2Lz+3T it's correct, it shouldn't receive a negative GOE because he turned the 3Lz into a 2Lz; actually, if he landed the 3T well, the GOE should have been a positive one! He fairly received -2 because of the step-out.
    You beat me to it!

  7. #82
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    MEN'S SHORT PROGRAM - VIDEOS & RESULT (Updated)

    1. Daisuke TAKAHASHI (JPN) - 92.29 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    2. Patrick CHAN (CAN) - 89.27 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    3. Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) - 87.17 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    4. Takahiko KOZUKA (JPN) - 86.39 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    5. Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) - 80.19 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    6. Tatsuki MACHIDA (JPN) - 70.58 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    Last edited by Mao88; 12-07-2012 at 02:38 PM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    The minimum combo required is a 3-2 or 2-3, so 2Lz+3T it's correct, it shouldn't receive a negative GOE because he turned the 3Lz into a 2Lz; actually, if he landed the 3T well, the GOE should have been a positive one! He fairly received -2 because of the step-out.
    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Actually, the requirement for a jump combination in the SP is a minimum of one triple and one double jump - it doesn't matter which one is first or second. Chan executed a Double Lutz + Triple Toe combo, which fulfilled the SP requirement. As a result, the negative GOE here does not have to be a mandatory -3; however, due to the step out on the Triple Toe, 8 of the 9 judges chose to give him -2 for the overall execution of the combo which was the right call.

    So it is incorrect to say he received negative GOE on this element for doubling the Lutz. In fact, had he landed his Triple Toe properly, the element would have likely received positive GOE overall.
    Got it! Thanks for the explanations!

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    Me? Go on twitter and search 'chanflation'. You wish I were the only one who is talking.
    Not any different than if I type "flat Earth" into Google, I'd find a lot of people, even a whole association of people who are convinced that Earth is really flat too.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Not any different than if I type "flat Earth" into Google, I'd find a lot of people, even a whole association of people who are convinced that Earth is really flat too.
    Oh, God! Just for fun, I did try to type "flat earth" in Google, then I've gotten total 86 pages of links - just links - related to it. And there is some international flat earth society.
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 12-07-2012 at 02:36 PM.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Got it! Thanks for the explanations!
    Mathematically speaking, had Chan landed his Double Lutz + Triple Toe combo cleanly, he had a very high chance of placing ahead of Takahashi in the SP. Why? His GOE on this element is -2. Without the error, he would likely get mostly +1 for this element. +1 - (-2) = +3 on the TES alone. You add +3 to Chan's TES, they are already about tied by 0.02 between the two of them. Even if Chan gets mostly +1 for that, should there be a couple of +2 in the mix, there would be enough fraction in the GOE to put him ahead of Takahashi or if some judges feel without the error, the performance is essentially clean, therefore, boost the PCS by tiny fractions upward, easily erasing the 0.02 of microscopic difference in TES deficit - voila!
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-07-2012 at 06:44 PM.

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    I was so happy about Daisuke today, he finally got that 4T back! As I said before, he’s such a warrior and will always come back stronger, so when some other fans worried about him after CoC and NHK, I wasn’t too worried because I knew he would come back. I hope he skates equally well tomorrow and wins the gold. Perhaps that’ll be difficult given how strong Patrick is, but I really want Daisuke to win at least once. Let me dream until tomorrow.

    And as I said in the prediction thread, I knew Hanyu wouldn’t do well in the SP because he practiced in Sendai alone without his coach Orser, so his performance today did not surprise me. And there was a big 7.3-magnitude earthquake close to his hometown today. I don’t know if that also affected his concentration today. Anyway I’ll be happy if he gets a bronze medal here, and I won’t be disappointed even if he finishes off the podium.

    Quote Originally Posted by emma View Post
    So, I suppose we can nitpick the GOE's, although in this case, relative to the other competitors today, I don't feel these scores were 'out there' or off. And, I did think Chan's 3A today was pretty amazing today, no hesitation, skated fast into it, fast turns, lovely glide out of it (I couldn't judge the height though, but i imagine he had nice height)...actually, so his quad was pretty amazing too, at first, I thought he tripled it.
    Yes, Patrick had an amazing 3A today. It was indeed amazing, no hesitation, skated fast into it, fast turns, lovely glide out of it, and he had nice height. But I think what itoja means is someone compares Patrick’s 3A with Hanyu’s 3As at SA and NHK, Hanyu had all these good qualities Patrick had – no hesitation, skated fast into it, fast turns, lovely glide out of it, and nice height. Besides those, Hanyu also had crazy entrance which Patrick did not have.

    I’m not going to question the GOE Patrick received on his 3A today because each event is scored differently. Perhaps the judges like to give higher GOEs at this event. I see Javier also got +2 on his 3A which he usually didn’t get that high. So if Hanyu did a 3A today as he did at SA and NHK, then his GOE should outscore Patrick’s +2.57, perhaps Hanyu would get +2.71 or +3. But since SA and GPF are different events and perhaps SA and NHK judges were more strict with GOEs, I’m not going to compare scores among different events.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Not any different than if I type "flat Earth" into Google, I'd find a lot of people, even a whole association of people who are convinced that Earth is really flat too.
    Best laugh of the day ... thank you !!!!!

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Mathematically speaking, had Chan landed his Double Lutz + Triple Toe combo cleanly, he had a very high chance of placing ahead of Takahashi in the SP. Why? His GOE on this element is -2. Without the error, he would likely get mostly +1 for this element. +1 - (-2) = +3 on the TES alone. You add +3 to Chan's TES, they are already about tied by 0.02 between the two of them. Even if Chan gets mostly +1 for that, should there be a couple of +2 in the mix, there would be enough fraction in the GOE to put him ahead of Takahashi or if some judges feel without the error, the performance is essentially clean, therefore, boost the PCS by tiny fractions upward, easily erasing the 0.02 of microscopic difference in TES deficit - voila!
    Mathematically speaking, Chan got -1.40 GOE for his combo, not -2. And mostly +1 for that element, don't translate as +1 GOE...

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctor2014 View Post
    I was so happy about Daisuke today, he finally got that 4T back! As I said before, he’s such a warrior and will always come back stronger, so when some other fans worried about him after CoC and NHK, I wasn’t too worried because I knew he would come back. I hope he skates equally well tomorrow and wins the gold. Perhaps that’ll be difficult given how strong Patrick is, but I really want Daisuke to win at least once. Let me dream until tomorrow.

    And as I said in the prediction thread, I knew Hanyu wouldn’t do well in the SP because he practiced in Sendai alone without his coach Orser, so his performance today did not surprise me. And there was a big 7.3-magnitude earthquake close to his hometown today. I don’t know if that also affected his concentration today. Anyway I’ll be happy if he gets a bronze medal here, and I won’t be disappointed even if he finishes off the podium.


    Yes, Patrick had an amazing 3A today. It was indeed amazing, no hesitation, skated fast into it, fast turns, lovely glide out of it, and he had nice height. But I think what itoja means is someone compares Patrick’s 3A with Hanyu’s 3As at SA and NHK, Hanyu had all these good qualities Patrick had – no hesitation, skated fast into it, fast turns, lovely glide out of it, and nice height. Besides those, Hanyu also had crazy entrance which Patrick did not have.

    I’m not going to question the GOE Patrick received on his 3A today because each event is scored differently. Perhaps the judges like to give higher GOEs at this event. I see Javier also got +2 on his 3A which he usually didn’t get that high. So if Hanyu did a 3A today as he did at SA and NHK, then his GOE should outscore Patrick’s +2.57, perhaps Hanyu would get +2.71 or +3. But since SA and GPF are different events and perhaps SA and NHK judges were more strict with GOEs, I’m not going to compare scores among different events.
    I completely agree - first, with being so happy for Dai. And second, I understood the comparison was with Hanyu's 3A at other events and for that reason said I suppose we can nitpick. Perhaps I should have said: we can complain or critique. HAnyu's earlier GP event 3A was truly amazing - in addition to what you say in the quote above, it was also spot on the beat of the music. So, again, I "hear" you and agree also with the way you looked at scores at this event.

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