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Thread: 2012 GPF Pairs Short Program SP

  1. #31
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    PAIRS SHORT PROGRAM - VIDEOS & RESULT (Updated)

    1. Tatiana VOLOSOZHAR & Maxim TRANKOV (RUS) - 73.46 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    2. Vera BAZAROVA & Yuri LARIONOV (RUS) - 70.14 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    3. Qing PANG & Jian TONG (CHN) - 64.74 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    4. Meagan DUHAMEL & Eric RADFORD (CAN) - 64.20 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    5. Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS & Dylan MOSCOVITCH (CAN) - 60.95 Short Program, 2nd Copy
    6. Yuko KAVAGUTI & Alexander SMIRNOV (RUS) - 58.02 Short Program, 2nd Copy

  2. #32
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    Oh, no! Kavaguti and Smirnov in sixth place? Oh, drat.

  3. #33
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StellaCampo View Post
    I think tolosai is a bit unfair to FlattFan. The issue he's raising is NOT whether B/L is TRYING or NOT TRYING. The issue is what they do may not be a real SBS jump even if they may be trying.

    I was watching Raisport live and Franca Bianconi (B/H's coach) was saying (if I remember correctly) they (B/L) are so wide apart but that's how they chose to do it. I will double check what Franca actually said when a video is uploaded. So FlattFan may not be alone.

    PS. I now watched the video (thanks to Mao88) and Bianconi did say B/L "strategically choose to do it this way so as not to create problems for themselves but this shouldn't attract (positive) value in terms of GOE".
    I was actually replying to two comments though that wasn't clear. One was by you, where you said

    "It's really unfair on other pairs who try to achieve the objective of SBS pair jumps ie closeness and synchro
    and in the process may fail now and again."


    I think B/L are an example of a pair who tries to achieve this (or at least the synchro) and does indeed fail now and again (or again and again). I don't think the comment you made could be reasonably interpreted as meaning anything but that B/L don't try to achieve closeness/synchro but if I somehow misunderstood, sorry.

    Flattfan said "they never attempted a SBS jump their whole life"

    I did specifically address the larger point (their SBS jumps themselves) and said that they should get negative GOE (I wouldn't go so far as to say they should get 0). I don't think, though, that I was unfair or misconstrued anything.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I was actually replying to two comments though that wasn't clear. One was by you, where you said

    "It's really unfair on other pairs who try to achieve the objective of SBS pair jumps ie closeness and synchro
    and in the process may fail now and again."


    I think B/L are an example of a pair who tries to achieve this (or at least the synchro) and does indeed fail now and again (or again and again). I don't think the comment you made could be reasonably interpreted as meaning anything but that B/L don't try to achieve closeness/synchro but if I somehow misunderstood, sorry.

    Flattfan said "they never attempted a SBS jump their whole life"

    I did specifically address the larger point (their SBS jumps themselves) and said that they should get negative GOE (I wouldn't go so far as to say they should get 0). I don't think, though, that I was unfair or misconstrued anything.
    Thanks for your clarification, tolosai.
    My point: Other pairs try, but B/L either can't or don't try. B/L shouldn't get positive GOE.
    FlattFan: What they do is not SBS jump. The element should have no BV, no GOE.
    Your point: B/L do try but often fail.
    Bianconi: B/L strategically choose to jump far apart. No positive GOE.

    PS! Apology to tolosai for my use of the word "unfair". I could have phrased my comment without it. But I appreciate both your and FlattFan's comments on this issue.
    Last edited by StellaCampo; 12-07-2012 at 05:46 PM. Reason: Post script

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    I was actually replying to two comments though that wasn't clear. One was by you, where you said

    "It's really unfair on other pairs who try to achieve the objective of SBS pair jumps ie closeness and synchro
    and in the process may fail now and again."


    I think B/L are an example of a pair who tries to achieve this (or at least the synchro) and does indeed fail now and again (or again and again). I don't think the comment you made could be reasonably interpreted as meaning anything but that B/L don't try to achieve closeness/synchro but if I somehow misunderstood, sorry.

    Flattfan said "they never attempted a SBS jump their whole life"

    I did specifically address the larger point (their SBS jumps themselves) and said that they should get negative GOE (I wouldn't go so far as to say they should get 0). I don't think, though, that I was unfair or misconstrued anything.
    I'm not offended by it at all.
    Here's the issue that most single skaters faced, if their spins travel by so and so, their spins get 0 points. Case and point: Rachael Flatt at SA 2009.
    In the same vein, they should give 0 for SBS jump that are so far apart.

    I believe B/L don't even bother with the SBS jump. Their coach probably tell them to just jump when they feel comfortable, never mind the partner. That is the only way they can land their jump. That is why their SBS jump should always be 0. They are not doing that element. Trying doesn't mean they did it.

  6. #36
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    I thought the top 2 were top notch and really enjoyable. Love B/L's twist and lifts and they were more expressive and powerful than ever. This SP really suits them. And of course, Tatiana and Maxim are fantastic and wonderfully smooth.

    I hope Duhamel and Radford can move up to bronze.

  7. #37
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StellaCampo View Post
    Thanks for your clarification, tolosai.
    My point: Other pairs try, but B/L either can't or don't try. B/L shouldn't get positive GOE.
    FlattFan: What they do is not SBS jump. The element should have no BV, no GOE.
    Your point: B/L do try but often fail.
    Bianconi: B/L strategically choose to jump far apart. No positive GOE.

    PS! Apology to tolosai for my use of the word "unfair". I could have phrased my comment without it. But I appreciate both your and FlattFan's comments on this issue.
    I think you really made everyone's comments clear, thank you.

    Like Flattfan I am not offended at all by any of this Just trying to make my point clear and share my opinion!

  8. #38
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    could anybody kind enough to explain to me how come the PCS of V/T could be higher than Patrick?
    I know it's uncomparable considering different disiplines, however I assume the standard for PCS, for example skating skills, should be more or less the same.

  9. #39
    Spiral Lover tulosai's Avatar
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    Finally watched all the programs. V/T truly remind me of a prostitute and her pimp in the way they execute this program. That is honestly the vibe I get from their characterizations and facial expressions. I know this may be a borderline inappropriate thing to post but I really mean it. It is seriously skeezy and in my opinion keeps getting worse. I would not give them high PCS for this.

    For an example see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7BaaTlmuEs#t=6m04s
    Last edited by tulosai; 12-08-2012 at 04:41 AM.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulosai View Post
    Finally watched all the programs. V/T truly remind me of a prostitute and her pimp in the way they execute this program. That is honestly the vibe I get from their characterizations and facial expressions. I know this may be a borderline inappropriate thing to post but I really mean it. It is seriously skeezy and in my opinion keeps getting worse. I would not give them high PCS for this.

    For an example see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7BaaTlmuEs#t=6m04s
    I totally agree. Also the way he touched her at the 1:05 in the same clip you posted.. Feels gross. Im tired of their talent being wasted over an over again with crappy programs. Tatiana has always been my favourite pair skater, she is so delicate and lyrical, but it is never emphasized in their programs. I guess Im more on S/S wagon this season. Please, just change the costumes!!!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinga View Post
    I totally agree. Also the way he touched her at the 1:05 in the same clip you posted.. Feels gross. Im tired of their talent being wasted over an over again with crappy programs. Tatiana has always been my favourite pair skater, she is so delicate and lyrical, but it is never emphasized in their programs. I guess Im more on S/S wagon this season. Please, just change the costumes!!!
    S/S have changed the costumes; I'm not sure if the free is better.

  12. #42
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    I liked V/T when they first got together but now I can say I actually prefer Volosozhar with Stanislav Morozov.

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    I don't see how V/T are better than M/T were. The programs are certainly not better. People used to blame Maria for her inability to do complex programs. Turn out, it might have been Trankov.

    But V/T are getting the kind of PCS inflation that rivals Zimbabwe currency. It's crazy.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    I don't see how V/T are better than M/T were. The programs are certainly not better. People used to blame Maria for her inability to do complex programs. Turn out, it might have been Trankov.

    But V/T are getting the kind of PCS inflation that rivals Zimbabwe currency. It's crazy.
    I have been puzzled by the phenomenon of M/T not getting recognition. I couldn't understand why they were seen as not as good as K/S. I liked their lines and their lifts and throws were more beautiful than K/S's.
    I am now puzzled by the sudden increase in points V/T are getting. Were Mukhortova and Morozov so bad in terms of PCS's? OK, both of them often botched their jumps but this happens to any team. Can some one explain please.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I liked V/T when they first got together but now I can say I actually prefer Volosozhar with Stanislav Morozov.
    Yes, I liked her with Stanislav better too!! Her delicacy stood out with him. When she is paired with Maxim it seems that someone is trying to turn her into a sexy chick. I dont like that. And Maxim is somehow dominating this team, I feel. Such a pity Stanislav and Tatiana never medaled at the Europeans...

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