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Thread: 2012 GPF Free Dance FD

  1. #136
    Custom Title dwiggin3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcnative View Post
    V/M are great ice dancers/dancers.They have great line, presentation, skills, etc. Their dances this year are not doing it for me. I am biased, because I think they get overscored but I'm still scratching my head on both dances. The SD tries to combine modern dance with YP and it's ridiculous, or maybe I'm just not dance-cultured enough to be able to appreciate it. As I'm understanding Carmen, they are supposed to be presenting a sexy woman that rules men. But all I see is a pretty woman in a sexy dress with sexy makeup flailing around. If my understanding of what Carmen is supposed to be is correct, then their final pose is sums that up.

    i've been fans of D/W since Bollywood. They don't have "line", but they have the skills and just seem to be able to make their programs work for them. I recognize that they have recycled several "signature" moves and lifts, and they certainly haven't updated their expedition, but everything seemed to come together excellently with this skate. Kudos to them for taking what they have and making it work.
    I have to agree with you here but add a few points:

    In the beginning when V/M were breaking out, I didn't get what was so great about them. Like you, it may be that I'm just not cultured well enough on dance. I fell hard for them in Vancouver and just loved their skating. I felt the same for D/W - with a bit more enthusiasm since I'm from the USA and the B/A & D/W rivalry was exciting. I absolutely LOVED Bollywood as well as Amalie and the Beatles medley. D/V waltz program (last year?) was absolutely breathtaking.

    I think both teams are very evenly matched but with differing strengths. Inasmuch as it helps for them to train together and push each other, I wonder if it keeps them from exploring their own styles. I would not go so far as to say they have similar programs but I just see too much sameness between these two pairs. What I seem to notice with both of these teams is that they either have absolutely stellar programs - perfect for each other or terribly dismal programs (imo) - like this year. Hate both programs (SP/LP for both). Interestingly, both teams seem to have the same up/down program in the same cycle.

    I'm not a fan of either LP this year. V/M - she is not as lean as she has been in the past. Having said that, she is in no way fat. I think she *appears* heavier simply b/c she is not tiny like Meryl, has a more athletic build and compared to Scott, who is not that tall or muscular, *appears* larger. She may be a few pounds heavier but that's to be expected as they head into peak season (and quite frankly, if the standard for Tessa's "thinness" is how she looked in Vancouver, then she'll never win that battle b/c she was very slim then). I'm also not loving the costume for the LP on her...it's too heavy (pardon my use of words). Meryl and Scott are just the opposite in terms of body type, though I have the same issues with their LP - uninspiring, dark, drab...just bleh. After last year's fantastic purple walz LP dress, I'm dissapointed in her dress this year (interestingly, her costumes, as with Tessa, seem to be either stellar or bleach).

    In the end, I hope both skate well this season. I'm willing to be under-whelmed by both this year and chalk it up to pre-olympic "stuff". I just hope they both come out with fantastic, original programs for next year that really highlight their INDIVIDUAL strengths as apposed to trying to do the same stuff to keep up.

  2. #137
    Custom Title rosacotton's Avatar
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    I/K -- not a fan of this program, and most of it has to do with the music. I personally liked last season's FD better.
    B/S -- first time I've viewed their FD. Does anyone know what it is about? It made me think of "Coppelia." Big improvement from last year.
    C/L -- they are making me into a fan. Lovely program. Luca's reaction to their score is priceless!
    P/B -- I have a soft spot for this team, and this program is growing on me.
    V/M -- personally I prefer C/L's Carmen, though this is a great skate.
    D/W -- another good performance. Of their three skates I liked NHK best. I'm enjoying seeing this program develop.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Diva View Post
    Think Navka and Kostomorov who were very close in height.
    Navka/Kostomarov had 12cm difference in height. It's smaller than the current Russian lead teams (16-17cm) but it's no way "very close".
    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Diva View Post
    And many of us scratch our heads about the scores that D/W get with their recycled, unoriginal programs that have clean technique but their attempts to tell a love story doesn't work IMO.
    I am not scarching my head about D/W wins (score- yes, both top teams are overscored this season). I too think that their FD is recycled stuff but at least there's good technique, speed and the dance is not false. In V/M FD they are the same love doves with good-looking faces who are trying to act like Evil Carmen. It does look false. I think this plus technique issue are the reasons why they are losing to D/W currently.

  4. #139
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Just for documentation purposes,
    Denkova & Staviski had slightly larger height difference than V&M, 8 cm.

    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00003414.htm
    N&K are 12 cm apart in height.
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00006989.htm
    V&M are 7 cm apart in height
    http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00006989.htm
    D&W are 15 cm apart in height
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albena_Denkova
    Denkova 165 cm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_Staviski
    Staviyski 173 cm

    I believe that the story of Bobrova & Soloviev's program is that he is mentally ill, lost in a world of his own. She attempts to enter his world to help cure him. He recovers, but she remains locked in that world of madness.

  5. #140
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Just for documentation purposes,
    Denkova & Staviski had slightly larger height difference than V&M, 8 cm.
    The Skate Canada bio has them at 5'5''/5'8''. 5'8'' is about 1.72-1.73 depending on whether you round it up or down; either way, it's comparable to DenStavs. The smallest height difference I can think of is the Kerrs - 6 cm.

    I still think that V/M should consider doing the occasional reverse lift. It would stand out and it should work consider their respective sizes. If Federica Faiella and Sara Hurtado were able to lift their partners, I'm sure Tessa can manage it too.

  6. #141
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I'm sure Tessa could manage it, but it's a relatively dangerous move. F&S had some scary falls doing a reverse lift. I'm not a doctor, and I'd like one to tell me whether a lot of heavy lifting would be hard on Tessa's legs or not. I really don't know.

  7. #142
    Celebrating the Excellence of #VirtueMoir golden411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    ... I still think that V/M should consider doing the occasional reverse lift. It would stand out and it should work consider their respective sizes. ...
    Just my two cents, but am I the only one who thinks that reverse lifts "stand out" in an undesirable, gimmicky way?
    Call me old-fashioned , but not my cup of tea for a competitive program.
    For an exhibition program, I would try to be more open-minded, but still not my thing really.

    (In the case of Virtue/Moir, Doris makes a good point re potential risk in light of her leg issues in the past.)

  8. #143
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    The Spanish couple, Hurtado & Dias, have some cool reverse lifts, but I always found A&P's reverse lifts ugly & F&S's downright frightening. Faiella dropped Scali pretty much on his head. The Kerrs-neither way.

  9. #144
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    Just my two cents, but am I the only one who thinks that reverse lifts "stand out" in an undesirable, gimmicky way?
    You're not the only one. I hated it when A/P did it and hated when the Kerrs did it.

    And as far as recycled elements go, D/W only have one that I can tell, the DF lift. And they're not the only ones that do that. W/P have been using the same lifts for about 6 seasons now and several other dance teams often use the same lifts and spins.
    Last edited by Whitneyskates; 12-11-2012 at 07:26 PM.

  10. #145
    Off the ice Buttercup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Just my two cents, but am I the only one who thinks that reverse lifts "stand out" in an undesirable, gimmicky way?
    Call me old-fashioned , but not my cup of tea for a competitive program.
    For an exhibition program, I would try to be more open-minded, but still not my thing really.

    (In the case of Virtue/Moir, Doris makes a good point re potential risk in light of her leg issues in the past.)
    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    The Spanish couple, Hurtado & Dias, have some cool reverse lifts, but I always found A&P's reverse lifts ugly & F&S's downright frightening. Faiella dropped Scali pretty much on his head. The Kerrs-neither way.
    I think it depends on the lift and the execution. As Doris noted, Hurtado/Diaz have been able to make it work, and unlike most of the others, their reverse lifts are a scoring element, and they have at times been marked quite well for them. And rightly so - I remember the first time I saw what they were doing at 2011 Euros, and it was definitely a wow moment and a well-executed lift. A/P had good ones and not so good ones. This non-scoring lift from Faiella/Scali worked for me because it echoes the first lift in the program and I thought that tied in really well to the concept of the program. Also, Massimo was at no point in danger of being dropped on that one

    OT 1: taken together, F/S's OD/FD in the Olympic season were high on my list of favorites. OT2: Sara Hurtado is a superstar and Adria Diaz is no slouch, either. If their tech ever catches up to their performance ability (remember, they had a fairly late start in ice dance), they'll go far.

    Whether Tessa can do reverse lifts of any sort, with her past leg issues, is a question I hadn't considered. I think it might depend on weight distribution and the balance point.
    Last edited by Buttercup; 12-11-2012 at 04:05 PM.

  11. #146
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    It didn't bother me when Annissina and Piezerat did reverse lifts for some reason, but normally I don't go for it. It certainly can be gimmicky. Didn't A/P do that lift in their Romeo and Juliet, and didn't they use the Prokofiev music? I think the quality of their characters, where Romeo and Juliet almost take turns being the leader in the relationship (think of the death scene in the original play), might be what made me accept the move with this couple. Also, Marina had a particular kind of forcefulness that is compatible with such a move, whereas Gwendal could play a more--hmmm, not passive, but maybe contemplative persona. It's almost as if they interchange yin and yang. In any case, I don't see this kind of move working for Tessa and Scott. And, as Doris points out, it might make trouble for her glass legs. We want her to remain active and healthy as long as possible so we can enjoy their skating for years to come!

    I'm thinking back to the first couple I ever saw using a reverse lift, and I think (but can't swear on it) that it was Klimova/Ponomarenko in a professional program. Pretty much anything they did worked for me! As far as I was concerned, they just about had magical powers on the ice.

  12. #147
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I believe that the story of Bobrova & Soloviev's program is that he is mentally ill, lost in a world of his own. She attempts to enter his world to help cure him. He recovers, but she remains locked in that world of madness.
    Isn't there an ISU rule that says dances have to be upbeat and cheerful?

  13. #148
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    That was last year's fad. It's still on the books, but this year we have:

    Dying Don Jose Carmen
    Dying Carmen Carmen
    Dying Esmeralda & Quasimodo
    Alternately Crazy Russians
    Dying Patrick Swayze character Russians
    Statue coming to life (and then turning to stone again) Canadians
    zombies coming to life and going back to the grave Germans
    The Shibutanis doing very young geisha and her boyfriend-I'm not sure whether this is upbeat or not
    ANd P&B who are doing disco Rolling Stones & and the only truly upbeat FD of the bunch.

    The other rule is that the story, if there is one, is supposed to be immediately understandable by the audience. Some of the above are not all that clear.

  14. #149
    Custom Title rosacotton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post


    Dying Don Jose Carmen
    Dying Carmen Carmen
    Dying Esmeralda & Quasimodo
    Dying Patrick Swayze character Russians
    Seems like only dying Romeo and Juliet is missing from the list.

    The other rule is that the story, if there is one, is supposed to be immediately understandable by the audience. Some of the above are not all that clear.
    You got that right!

  15. #150
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    In Pairs the ISU Rules still (thanks god) speak about the Man and the Lady in lifts. While in Ice dancing it's just "one of the partners", i.e. anyone can lift anyone. Why in Ice Daning and not in Pairs too I wonder. They were afraid that in this case the Pairs will end up in switching roles completely, like a big-she with a small-he doing lift stuff, death spirals. etc.? The reverse lift is odd. For me it's always been just a stunt, some cheap trick to get exra wows from crowds, performed mainly by those who couldn't get enough wows by the traditional way. The same I can say about Natalie's idea to show her naked belly in SD, even if we all know that nudity is not allowed. Otherwise skaters can skate in bikini.

    Speaking about Voir's last lift in FD, the one that provote people to use explicit language. I am curious how it managed to be counted as legal is she is sitting on his shoulders.

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