It is because in pairs the lady goes over the man's head entirely whereas in ice dance that is still illegal. The vast majority of women are not physically capable of lifting the weight of any other adult person (woman man big small) over their head physiologically.Originally Posted by let`s talk
In this years FD, D/W are using new lifts except for the DF split lift. Also the step sequences look original. The feel of the program is very intense and passionate, something that is done well by them, but quite different from the tango or DF. I too, find the expression very impressive and natural, not forced at all. Of course, this kind of thing is a matter of opinion. Based on this, I don't think the ND is at all unoriginal or recycled.
Welcome to Golden Skate, Rhonepony!
Apparently, Tessa hasn't been counted as sitting on Scott's shoulders by 3 different tech panels this year-if she had been, the lift would be an illegal element, I think?
Here's a bookmark to the lift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...owCzhVA#t=258s
Here's the wording on Illegal lifts for the Tech Panel handbook:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf
The penalty is a -2.00 deduction, and level 0 or 1 for the lift.The following movementsand/or poses during the lift are illegal:
Lifting hand(s) of the lifting partner higher than his head*;
Lying or sitting on the partner’s head;
Sitting or standing on the partner’s shoulder, back;
Lifting partner swinging the lifted partner around by holding the skate(s)/boot(s) or leg(s) only
with fully extended arm(s) or by holding the hand(s) with full arm extension by both partners;
Lifted partner in upside down split pose (with sustained angle between thighs more than 45
degrees)**;
* It is not considered as an Illegal Lift Movement/Pose if:
• the point of contact of the lifting hand/arm of the lifting partner with any part of the body of
the lifted partner is not sustained higher than the lifting partner’s head;
• the lifting hand/arm which is used for support or balancing only or which touches any part
of the body of the lifted partner is not sustained by the lifting partner higher than his head
for more than 2 seconds.
** A brief movement through an upside down split pose (with any angle between thighs) will be
permitted if it is not established (sustained) or if it is used only to change pose.
The process for identifying an illegal lift is:
Perhaps the choreographic lift is also borderline, since Scott's hands end up higher than his head sometimes?Technical Specialist identifies
Technical Controller authorizes or corrects and deducts If there is an illegal movement during the execution of any element, the deduction for an illegal movement will apply and the element will receive Level 1 if the requirements for at least Level 1 are fulfilled. Otherwise the element will be called No Level. However, if both
Technical Specialists disagree with a correction on illegal elements asked for by the Technical Controller, the initial decision of the Technical Specialist and Assistant Technical Specialist stands.
In any case, 3 panels are OK with these 2 lifts.
Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-14-2012 at 06:02 AM.
Perhaps the key interpreted words are "Sitting or standing on the partners shoulders, back"
In this case, Tessa is on/over Scott's shoulders, chest. She is not technically sitting on his shoulders, since only her legs are hooked over the shoulders. If they had approached this lift from the back, her rear end would be on/over his back with the legs hooked over the shoulders.
Last edited by rvi5; 12-12-2012 at 11:11 PM.
After checking the requirements, I am more concerned about Scott's hands in the choreographic lift. When he leans back, his hands are higher than his head.
The other lift is risky. Any small slip, and Tessa will be sitting on Scott's shoulders or head, but I think the panels were right, and it is fine.
There are enough super big women in this world who can lift very small men. I just don't want to see it in figure skating. I think it was quite obvious that I was mocking the whole idea of a reverse lift. Why did they even need to introduce it in Ice Dancing in the first place? It would be better if they sticked with the Lady and the Man, like in Pairs.
Tessa is sitting on his shoulders, not just on/over his shoulders. And his both hands are higher than his head. If it were someone else, especially some junior team, they would likey get a deduction:
http://visualrian.ru/ru/images/zooms/RIAN_1285325.jpg
I have to agree with you-his hands are clearly over his head, and by the rules, the lift should have been judged an illegal element, if his hands were there over 2 seconds. And it looks to me like she was sitting on his shoulders. Which event was this photo from?
I would expect some team (not Zoueva obviously, to bring this up, because the total free dance deduction for an illegal lift on a rotational lift, drops the lift to, at best, level 1
with a -2 deduction. At GPF, it earned 5.43. A level one lift is worth 1.50 and a level 4 is worth 4.00, for a drop of 2.5 points, a drop of 4.5 points with the penalty. .
Last edited by dorispulaski; 12-14-2012 at 04:18 AM.
The photo is from Cup of Russia. I think I posted it somewhere on CoR FD thread when CoR was taking place.
BTW, I'm not that fond of reverse lifts. The first I remember were A&P's but I suspect there were some before that.
At COR, I see why no one bothered. I&K, who placed second, were over 10 points behind in the FD alone, and it would not have made a difference.
If it were at the GPF, again, P&B were too far behind to benefit, either, but if D&W had a different coach, that coach might have pointed it out...
Sitting would likely involve Tessa's rear end in contact and supported by Scott's shoulders..like this. When you sit in a chair, your butt is in contact with the seat. What is the ISU's definition of sitting? If the lift position was reversed, you could argue her rear end was also supported by Scott's back. However, I don't see anything in the rules about the forward position. In your photo, Tessa's thigh is on Scott's shoulder, while her buttocks were on/over his chest. I suspect it may be impossible to get your buttocks onto someone's shoulder from that frontal position (without breaking his neck).
Last edited by rvi5; 12-13-2012 at 07:17 PM.
I can't be certain from that angle. The hand in question would be Scott's right hand, since that appears to be the supporting hand. His left hand appears to be just a loose hold on Tessa's wrist, which Scott may have been in the process of moving at the time the photo was taken. However, I agree they are taking risks which could catch up to them one day.
Last edited by rvi5; 12-13-2012 at 12:48 PM.
They should take that lift out.
A good argument for not sharing a coach with your closest rival.I would expect some team (not Zoueva obviously, to bring this up, because the total free dance deduction for an illegal lift on a combination lift, drops the lift to at best level 1
with a -2 deduction. At GPF, it earned 5.43. A level one lift is worth 1.50 and a level 4 is worth 4.00, for a drop of 2.5 points, -4.5 with the penalty. .
I like the final lift in V/M's Carmen - it goes perfectly with the crescendo of the music and increases the drama in this modern dance version of Carmen. The Russian audience loved it. Doubt that they would ever do a reverse lift - not their style.
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