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Thread: 2012 GPF Men's Free Skate LP

  1. #256
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    (Briefly considers calling Mathman a trigonometrist but reconsiders. Could easily be called a sesquipedalian if he chooses to get even.)

    After a busy Monday, I still haven't seen Javier's skate from the weekend. I tuned into the program just as everyone was applauding him wildly. It would be great if he got onto the world podium, but it's getting so the world podium would have to have about six or seven positions on it--are there that many metals to make awards out of? I guess we could give out aluminum, titanium, and zinc medals if things went really well at Worlds.

  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Sadly, the simple truth. Only I would add Worlds and the Olympics to the list of competitions that no one remembers except the participants.
    No way. There is no truth in it, so it's not sadly. Great champions are always remembered, their GPF wins simply count together with their other wins. Of course there are those GPF winners, even Worlds winner and a few Olympic winners who got easily forgotten, or if they get brought up, then usually in not good way (SLC, Vancouver, etc.).

  3. #258
    Forever stuck on those steps Li'Kitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
    I would tend to agree.... except that I think you should avoid creating an insurmountable problem. Using a current example, Fernandez is repeating the 4S and the 3S this season. But if he pops a 4S, he's gotta be very quick on his feet and remember to replace his final 3S with the 2A (I actually think that might be reason we're not seeing a lot of two quad LPs either) or it won't count. Fernandez' bind: his salchow is GORGEOUS. He hits it, the judges give him good GOES. His stamina is such that he can do the quad in the back-half of his program, and he actually ends with a 3S. So, how much of a risk is it?
    Isn't Fernandez going for two 4T's? He did so at SC. I just thought he exchanged the second 4T with a 4S this time, because he didn't get the first 4T into a combination. That was quick thinking, given that he turned the first 4S into a combination instantly after the 4T. But of course, that doesn't change what you said.


    About what Patrick said, while I don't think this Zayak rule is overly complicated, I definitly think it's stupid. I can see why you wouldn't want skaters to go for the same element more than once, so f.e. that second 4T of Patrick getting dingend is fine with me. But this sequence penalty counting as a combo when there was none is just unneeded. I always wanted to bang my head against the wall when beautiful done elements are invalidated because of mathematical play (and I'm half a mathematician). That's one case where the system makes things too complicated, eventhough I generally like CoP. Patrick didn't do 4 combos, he did 3. That 2A+2T should have counted.

  4. #259
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    No way. There is no truth in it, so it's not sadly. Great champions are always remembered, their GPF wins simply count together with their other wins. Of course there are those GPF winners, even Worlds winner and a few Olympic winners who got easily forgotten, or if they get brought up, then usually in not good way (SLC, Vancouver, etc.).
    Well, I tested myself to see how many Olympic gold medalists I could remember, counting back from 2010. (OK, so I am not Imaginary Pogue). I got ladies and men back to 1984, pairs back to 2010 (sorry Totmianina and Marinen), and dance back to 2002.

  5. #260
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I can't name them all either... much less the winning programs/costumes... coaches... I can get country, though... I think... lol

  6. #261
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    I think if the win was memorable to you, you'll remember. People tend to block out things they don't want to remember anyway. I'm sure down the road in 10 years, I'll be remembering who I wanted to win (if it was really that controversial) rather than the actual champions anyway haha.

    2002 SLC Pairs will be remembered for years to come.

  7. #262
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Dance back to 1976, with no trouble (when it started in the Olympics)
    Men back to 1976 (then I missed Nepala in 1972 and couldn't remember which of the JEnkins brothers came first)
    Ladies-I surprised myself. I got back to Barbara Ann Scott in 1948 with a miss in 1952 where I forget Alwegg.
    Pairs...what pairs? Only back to 2002.

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGrand View Post
    To me, he seems to try and project confidence.
    To me, those comments sound like a defense mechanism, namely, rationalization (e.g., GPF is not an important event; Rules are too complicated) to protect one's hurt ego. Nothing wrong with that except that it doesn't agree with what people expect to hear from a "professional".

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    To me, those comments sound like a defense mechanism, namely, rationalization (e.g., GPF is not an important event; Rules are too complicated) to protect one's hurt ego. Nothing wrong with that except that it doesn't agree with what people expect to hear from a "professional".

  10. #265
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    I’ve been busy recently and just watched the videos today. I don’t get all the judges-don’t-love-Patrick-anymore talk. He lost because he zayaked, not because the judges are phasing him out, and he won’t zayak the jumps next time. Patrick’s capable of scoring 100 in TES and 95 in PCS when he skates super cleanly. I wish that will happen at the Olympics though.

    Quote Originally Posted by FSGMT View Post
    90 PCS for this program? THIS is a scandal!
    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Yes, it is! I guess Morozov's vodka did the trick again. Hanyu should have won, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    , my baby prince indeed was the rightful gold medalist
    I was surprised that Takahashi won with that messy skate. He was so overscored in Russia maybe because of Morozov’s politicking. He was overscored in so many aspects, not just the PCS, but also overscored in GOE and he under-rotated so many jumps but was not called. Even Takahashi himself looked a bit surprised at his score. I have to agree with some posters here and on FSU that Yuzru was indeed robbed. He should have won.

    In general, I believe scoring should be fair, but that’s not what we saw this season. Some skaters like Takahashi and Kozuka routinely under-rotate some of their jumps but sometimes were not called. Takahashi also got gifted in GOEs at both NHK and GPF. Plus, some skaters like Kozuka and Fernandez had no steps preceding 4t or break between the steps and 4t in the SP but did not get -3 or -1 GOE. I mean how can Kozuka continuously be overscored and get away with it in his SP? This is unfair to other skaters like Patrick who are challenging themselves technically, as we know it’s harder to fully rotate the jumps and having steps before the jumps makes it more difficult to land your jumps. Skaters who violate the rule should be punished and skaters who execute elements well should be rewarded, otherwise there’s no fair play.

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Dance back to 1976, with no trouble (when it started in the Olympics)
    Men back to 1976 (then I missed Nepala in 1972 and couldn't remember which of the JEnkins brothers came first)
    Ladies-I surprised myself. I got back to Barbara Ann Scott in 1948 with a miss in 1952 where I forget Alwegg.
    Pairs...what pairs? Only back to 2002.
    I should know everyone back to 1976, the first Olympics I watched, and men's and ladies back to the War (though I haven't tried it yet). Men's...hmm. I know that Hayes came before David in the Jenkins brothers but can never remember whether Emmerich Danzer was 1964 or 1968. Was Patrick Pera 1968? Eeek! This is great brain gym. Pairs get kind of easy for a few Olympiads around 1972: Rodnina...Rodnina...Rodnina. Let me think on this.

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Well, I tested myself to see how many Olympic gold medalists I could remember, counting back from 2010. (OK, so I am not Imaginary Pogue). I got ladies and men back to 1984, pairs back to 2010 (sorry Totmianina and Marinen), and dance back to 2002.
    Have you tested yourself how many GPF gold medalists you could count back to? (no cheating!) And how many GPF gold medalists a casual fan could remember?

  13. #268
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    GPF Gold medallists-I can do 4 years of dance (2009)D&W, (2010)D&W, (2011)D&W, (2012)D&W, (2008)Delobel & Schoenfelder, beyond that, no. GPF dance is not well covered in the US.
    I believe Denkova & Staviyski won in 2006-2007 and Domnina & Shabalin in 2007-2008.
    And N&K won in 2005-2006, 2004-2005, & 2003-2004.
    I know B&K won in 2001-2002season, which is why there was so much heart aching.
    And I believe K&O won 1998-1999
    Otherwise? Clueless.

  14. #269
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Have you tested yourself how many GPF gold medalists you could count back to? (no cheating!)
    That's easy: Michelle Kwan won the Championship Series Final in 1995. She never won another, since it was renamed the Grand Prix.

    I think sports is an in-the-moment kind of experience. I don't care what you did yesterday, what are you going to do for me today? I can't remember who won the last World Cup, the last World Series, Super Bowl, Master's Golf Championship, or Wimbledon either -- although I watched them all and rooted for one side or the other.

    I suppose that says more about my memory than about the nature of sports.

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