Country flags (where to buy, tips, etc)

http://faq.vfw.org/faq/index.php?View=entry&EntryID=497

The VFW also does proper flag disposal. (Mr. Ski is a Vietnam era vet of the Coast Guard)

All this flag stuff is part of info guys were taught in boot camp, along with knot tying and surfboat rowing (something the USCG doesn't require now).

I'm glad you guys are around to share that with the rest of us.

When I was growing up, I think there was a lot more of this kind of awareness in the general public. As a very young child, I went to a sleepaway camp where they actually had a bugler (one of the older campers), and we had a flag-raising ceremony every day, with bugle call. We also had reveille every morning and taps every night. The campers took turns being chosen for flag raising and lowering, and we learned how to fold the flag into the triangles. As a result, all those rituals mean a lot to me, and I don't associate them with any particular political view. I just think of them as American.

Taps is especially lovely, and hearing it in the dark on a quiet summer night is a marvelously serene experience. I gather it originated in the Civil War. Those of you who are fans of Richard Rodgers might be familiar with the way he used it in a lovely sequence in the orchestral music he wrote for the World War II documentary Victory at Sea.

CoyoteChris said:

Second, on Canadians. They are certainly enthusiastically patriotic at skating events.....but that is most of the Canadians I personally meet. Those I meet from Quebec seem to have different views....
Any other Canadians want to weigh in?

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It could be certain cultural groups within Canada have different attitudes towards patriotism. However since the Parti Quebecois have always wanted to be a separate independent country, it could be related to that (just guessing...any Quebecors here who can comment?). Recently the Parti Quebecois attempted to win a vote to remove the Canadian flag from the Quebec legislature. Since this time the party was elected as a minority government, the vote failed. Still, when push-comes-to-shove during referendums, the majority of Quebecors voted to remain Canadian. Canadian patriotism in Quebec may depend on who you talk with ie. pro or anti separatist.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/pq-l...nadian-flag-from-quebec-legislature-1.1066088

I've seen Quebec fans display a Quebec flag while cheering for Joannie Rochette!

dorispulaski said:

I've seen Quebec fans display a Quebec flag while cheering for Joannie Rochette!

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HA why is that not surprising?

But that is true that Canadians will hold their head high if you give them something to be patriotic about - esp hockey.

I used to play all three Victory at Sea albums all the time on a turntable (Olympia, tell Toni what a record player is...she wont know) when I was in high school. I think some skaters could do worse than skating to a few of those songs....

Olympia said:

I'm glad you guys are around to share that with the rest of us.

When I was growing up, I think there was a lot more of this kind of awareness in the general public. As a very young child, I went to a sleepaway camp where they actually had a bugler (one of the older campers), and we had a flag-raising ceremony every day, with bugle call. We also had reveille every morning and taps every night. The campers took turns being chosen for flag raising and lowering, and we learned how to fold the flag into the triangles. As a result, all those rituals mean a lot to me, and I don't associate them with any particular political view. I just think of them as American.

Taps is especially lovely, and hearing it in the dark on a quiet summer night is a marvelously serene experience. I gather it originated in the Civil War. Those of you who are fans of Richard Rodgers might be familiar with the way he used it in a lovely sequence in the orchestral music he wrote for the World War II documentary Victory at Sea.

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Well put, Olympia. I grew up in 1950s America and there was no ambiguity about the meaning of the US flag. You pleadged allegiance to it every day....you were constantly being made aware of how much patriots suffered and died so we could fly that flag.
The Star Spangled Banner is all about the flag. When our skaters take a tour of the rink with an American Flag drapped over their shoulders, I am fine with that. They have honored themselves,their families and their country. If someone else wants to wave a flag of another country, that is fine....no harm no foul, but I wont.

Olympia said:

I think the meaning of the flag is very different in the U.S. from what it is in most other countries. It has a profound significance that goes even beyond general patriotism, it seems to me. For example, I don't know of any other country that has a pledge of allegiance directly to the flag itself. (The pledge goes on to say "And to the republic for which it stands," but it starts being addressed to the flag.)

Additionally (and I don't know whether this is true of other countries), there are all sorts of rules about how to treat the flag respectfully: for example, you're not supposed to step on it, or to let it touch the ground or trail in water. In fact, you're really not supposed to keep it flying after sundown or in bad weather, though a lot of people and businesses disregard that one. To store a flag, there's a special way to fold it; you don't just fold it in two or roll it up. Here's an ironic point: with all the anger over flag-burning in this country (it's sometimes done as a form of protest and provocation), the proper way to dispose of a flag that has become torn or damaged is to burn it.

I wonder whether any other countries have as much ritual surrounding their flags. Does anyone know of other examples?

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CoyoteChris said:

I used to play all three Victory at Sea albums all the time on a turntable (Olympia, tell Toni what a record player is...she wont know) when I was in high school. I think some skaters could do worse than skating to a few of those songs....

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Bet me, we still have one and use it! my first albums that I owned were vynal! (Chipmunks Christmas and rock albums)

I love Victory at Sea. I think I had two of the albums. I especially love "Theme of the Fast Carriers" and "Beneath the Southern Cross."

That's true: our national anthem is about our flag. In fact, it's the story of one specific event during a particular battle that the song's author witnessed. Though from time to time I wish our anthem would be changed to "America the Beautiful," because it's more lyrical (and easier to sing!) and more about the land itself, there is a certain bracing appeal to "The Star-Spangled Banner," which deals with a war that almost ended our country less than fifty years after it started.

Yea!!! Toni has a Victrola! Olympia, I like those songs too...
I will be in and out as we are having internet issues with the snow on the trees blocking our microwave path....stupid trees keep growing....
Extra credit...which song did R and H adapt to "No Other Love"?

Olympia said:

I love Victory at Sea. I think I had two of the albums. I especially love "Theme of the Fast Carriers" and "Beneath the Southern Cross."

That's true: our national anthem is about our flag. In fact, it's the story of one specific event during a particular battle that the song's author witnessed. Though from time to time I wish our anthem would be changed to "America the Beautiful," because it's more lyrical (and easier to sing!) and more about the land itself, there is a certain bracing appeal to "The Star-Spangled Banner," which deals with a war that almost ended our country less than fifty years after it started.

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R&H are Ralph & Hill?

You are soooooo funny.....Rogers and Hammerstein...... Richard Rogers did the composing for Victory at see and a few other little know works
Oklahoma!, .
2.2 Carousel
2.3 State Fair

3 South Pacific
3.2 The King and I
3.3 Cinderella
3.4 Flower Drum Song
3.5 The Sound of Music

dorispulaski said:

R&H are Ralph & Hill?

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CoyoteChris said:

Yea!!! Toni has a Victrola! Olympia, I like those songs too...
I will be in and out as we are having internet issues with the snow on the trees blocking our microwave path....stupid trees keep growing....
Extra credit...which song did R and H adapt to "No Other Love"?

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That would be "Beneath the Southern Cross," I believe.

Hope your internet straightens up real soon, Chris!

Olympia said:

I think the meaning of the flag is very different in the U.S. from what it is in most other countries. ...

Additionally (and I don't know whether this is true of other countries), there are all sorts of rules about how to treat the flag respectfully ...

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Another rule is that writing on the U.S. flag (any type of writing, including autographing) is considered disrespect to the flag.

I hope you don’t mind, but I would like to take this thread back to the original subject.

My advice for anybody buying flags is, where possible, buy in a shop rather than buy online. Because, when you buy online, you can’t be sure of the quality you are going to get.

I currently own 4 flags (all 5ft X 3ft), and the quality has varied greatly.

The first flag I bought was of British Hong Kong (the family of the girl I fancied at the time was originally from HK). I bought it in a tourist shop in Edinburgh, so I was able to see the quality before I bought. And the quality was what swayed me to buy it – it was very thick! OK, so it was a lot more expensive (£12) than the other flags I have bought but, as it was the first flag I bought, I didn’t really know what price flags should be.

The second flag I bought was of the Kingdom of Prussia (I think the design is absolutely beautiful!) I bought it on eBay, and it cost £3.07. I was very disappointed - it was so thin that you could see through it! But, it is the sort of flag that you can’t get from too many places, so I didn’t complain.

The third flag I bought was a German state flag. I bought it on eBay, and it cost £3.55. The quality was the same as the Hong Kong flag, so I was obviously delighted with it... especially when it was so much cheaper than the HK flag!

The fourth flag I bought was a Czech flag (I am a big fan of a Czech guy who races motorbikes here in Ireland). I bought it on eBay, and it cost £3.50. It was as thin as the Prussian flag, but the sewing wasn’t great. But, worst of all, the grommets were rusted, and when the flag was folded, they had left a stain on the material they were touching. I complained, and was given a full refund.

So, you have to be very careful when buying online, as you can’t judge the quality from the price.

I would like to buy more flags, but the differences in quality has put me off buying online. And, I don’t know any shops in Northern Ireland that sell flags which are not local flags.

At the moment, there are 2 flags I am specifically looking to buy (for reasons which will become obvious when I tell you what they are!) Now, the thing is that I have only found 1 website (magFlags) that sells 1 of these flags (the first), and the price is frankly extortionate - £70!!!

So, can anybody point me towards somewhere where I can get the following flags (5ft X 3ft) at a reasonable price:

Udmurtia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Udmurtia.svg)
Glazovsky District (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Glazov_Region_(Udmurtia).svg)

(In case you are wondering why I have not included the flag of Glazov town itself, I don’t really like the design of that particular flag. It is too wishy-washy)

Obviously, I would prefer a website that is in English. But, I could probably work out how to place an order on a website in most other Western European languages. But, I would definitely not be confident enough doing it on a website written in Cyrillic characters.

If anybody could help, I would appreciate it very much

Thank you

CaroLiza_fan

CaroLiza_fan, you are obviously a flag-lover of great accomplishment. The flag of Prussia, forsooth! Is it the one with that beautiful heraldic eagle? and I'm sure they're not making British Crown Colony flags of Hong Kong anymore. I do hope you find the flags you're looking for, Udmurtia and the Glazovsky District, but I suspect that will only whet your eagerness for other unusual flags, such as Sikkim and--hmmm, did the Hanseatic League have a flag? I hope you'll keep us updated.

You win the big enchilata! Southern Cross it is. I wonder if other countries have stringent rules about their flags? I believe it is wrong to let our flag touch the ground, for instance. Very oddly, this rule is now completeely broken on a regular basis by our US military at what kind of specific event? 10 points for each right answer. (Memorial services are not counted)

Olympia said:

CaroLiza_fan, you are obviously a flag-lover of great accomplishment. The flag of Prussia, forsooth! Is it the one with that beautiful heraldic eagle? and I'm sure they're not making British Crown Colony flags of Hong Kong anymore. I do hope you find the flags you're looking for, Udmurtia and the Glazovsky District, but I suspect that will only whet your eagerness for other unusual flags, such as Sikkim and--hmmm, did the Hanseatic League have a flag? I hope you'll keep us updated.

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Olympia said:

CaroLiza_fan, you are obviously a flag-lover of great accomplishment. The flag of Prussia, forsooth! Is it the one with that beautiful heraldic eagle? and I'm sure they're not making British Crown Colony flags of Hong Kong anymore. I do hope you find the flags you're looking for, Udmurtia and the Glazovsky District, but I suspect that will only whet your eagerness for other unusual flags, such as Sikkim and--hmmm, did the Hanseatic League have a flag? I hope you'll keep us updated.

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Thank you for your compliment, Olympia. You are obviously a flag connoisseur yourself, as the Prussian flag I bought is indeed the one you described (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Prussia_1892-1918.svg) I just fell in love with it the first time I saw it. As you say yourself, the eagle is absolutely beautiful, and a lot of work must have gone into designing all the intricate details of it.

As for the British Hong Kong flag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Hong_Kong_1959.svg), I did not realise that it was not being made any more. But, it was about 5 years ago that I bought it, so it was probably the last of old stock.

By the way, I know Patrick Chan and Michelle Kwan have both got parents from Hong Kong. But does anybody know of any other skaters currently competing that are either from HK themselves or whose families are from HK?

Well, I wouldn’t say that I specifically go out looking for unusual flags. There are normally reasons why I want to own particular flags – either that I particularly like the design, or that I like something (or somebody) from that place. I have already explained in my previous message about why I bought the HK, Prussian and Czech flags.

The reason I bought the German state flag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Germany_(state).svg) is that I have always been a big fan of all things German (history, culture, music, motorbike racers, F1 drivers, girls…) But it always winds me up whenever I see an upside-down German flag (a common problem with stripy flags). So, with having a flag with the eagle on it, everybody knows which way up it should be!

I would also like to buy some other national flags sometime: –
Austria (because I support so many Austrian ski-jumpers, and I think the eagle is beautiful)
Brazil (because I have supported so many Brazilian F1 drivers, and I think the flag is beautiful)
Italy (because I support so many Italian motorbike riders, especially Valentino Rossi)
Japan (because I support so many Japanese motorbike riders and figure skaters)
Russia (because I support so many Russian figure skaters, as well as motorbike rider Vladimir Leonov)

But, I am going to leave looking for these until I get to a shop. Like, these flags are relatively common, so I can shop around until I find a good quality one at a reasonable price!

And as for the flags I am currently searching for, I think it is suffice to say that Liza Tuktamysheva is from Glazov, Udmurtia. I am absolutely smitten with this girl. For somebody so young, she is such a great skater, and is so beautiful. (I also think the flag of Glazovsky District is beautiful!) So, if I ever do get to go to a skating competition, I want a flag that shows just which skater it is that I am supporting the most!

And as for your question about the Hanseatic League, I can’t find anything about it having a single flag. However, I did find a page on Wikipedia about the flags of the individual cities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_flags), and they nearly all seem to have red and white flags. So, if there was a single Hanseatic League flag, it would probably have been of these colours.

Don’t worry, I will let you know if I have any joy in my search. But, don’t hold your breath in the mean time!

CaroLiza_fan

Your next step is looking for heraldic devices. Some are on the flags (like the eagle of Prussia). But others are on the countries' coats of arms or elsewhere. For example, the Great Seal of the United States has our device the bald eagle (not colored according to the rules of heraldry, but naturally colored), whereas our flag does not. The fleur de lys of France is not on the French flag. Several countries including Austria (during its empire days), Prussia, and Russia have heraldic style eagles, facing forward--a position called "displayed" in heraldic language. Anyway, Russia has a gorgeous double eagle, displayed.

Displayed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Heraldic_displayed_eagle.svg

Russia's double eagle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Russia

Here's Udmurtia's coat of arms. It looks more modern in origin.
http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&...w=138&start=0&ndsp=41&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:90

I found pretty much the same about the Hanseatic League. You're probably right; if there was a flag, it would probably be red and white.

Wales has its heraldic device, the red dragon, on its flag. The red dragon is displayed in the position called passant, which means it's in profile and I think specifically that one foreleg is up. The British lion is rampant, meaning up on its hind legs facing sideways, I believe. I'll get out one of my books and look later on.

I bet you find a lot of other great heraldic devices as you go flag-hunting. I agree with you, by the way, that Brazil has a wonderful flag, very individual. Can't mistake it for the flag of any other country. I also love Canada's flag, with the maple leaf.

What an enjoyable topic this is turning out to be!

History geek alert: By the way, I've heard that the insignia of the Red Cross originates from the reverse colors of the Swiss flag, which is white cross on a field of red. Because Switzerland, the origin of the RC movement, was and is a neutral country, using its flag as the basis for the symbol underlined the neutrality of the Red Cross, so that its workers would be trusted in all countries. Of course in Muslim countries a cross would not be suitable, so their chapters of the organization use a crescent and are called the Red Crescent. I think Israel uses a red diamond shape called a Red Crystal.

Olympia said:

I think Israel uses a red diamond shape called a Red Crystal.

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Not sure about the Red Crystal, but Israel's equivalent of the Red Cross is called "Magen David Adom," which means the red shield of David.