Country flags (where to buy, tips, etc)

[dorispulaski]

Even I know most of the words to the Canadian anthem-we've watched a lot of Montreal Canadians hockey games in the days we lived in Vermont.

Does anyone else remember Roger Doucet? He learned and sang all the different countries' anthems for the 1976 Olympics in Montreal, and always sang the anthems at Montreal games.

http://wheretruthlies.com/drupal/sit...%20skaters.JPG
This Canadian fan doesn't measure up to the Netherlands' fans though...but neither do American fans measure up to Team Orange in fan patriotism.

I wish I could find a picture of the Canadian fans in their red and white maple leaf sweaters at figure skating events!

[CoyoteChris]

What an interesting discussion! Being an odd duck, I see things very differently than other people here.....
First on waving other country's flags....I kind of see this behaviour as odd.....it is a fine thing to hold up a banner that says "Go YuNa, we love you!"
but you wont see me wave a Korean flag. I am an American. I dont agree with alot of what my government does, and I vote my concious, but I am an American.
I may pull for some Russian and Chineese skaters and cheer them on, but I am cheering for the skaters, not their governments. IIRC, the camera during last Sunday's
skating panned to show Jason Brown (who Terry Gannon called a "fan", which is true) in the seats waving an American Flag for Team USA members. That is fine. But I
doubt that he would wave a Russian flag, but I dont know that. I wouldn't. (My friend PaulE disagrees with me and has a quiver of flags of different countries...that is fine...
if this problem were all that was wrong with the world, we would be in good shape...)
Second, on Canadians. They are certainly enthusiastically patriotic at skating events.....but that is most of the Canadians I personally meet. Those I meet from Quebec seem to have different views....
Any other Canadians want to weigh in?

[babyalligator]

I don't really see waving the flags of other nations along with your own as odd--especially at Olympic events, which is meant to bring nations together and acknowledge one another as fellow humans. Being patriotic to me doesn't mean that I cannot wish well to another country. I certainly don't feel any less American when waving another country's flag with mine. If anything, it is a gesture of acknowledgment to another nation and the cultures found within that nation.

A flag is much more than a representation of government. Or more accurately, a flag can represent many different things at many different times. Sometimes, yes, a flag does represent a government, But at other times, a flag can represent a person's cultural identity. If I reject a flag given to me by another individual, I am in some sense, rejecting a part of who that person is. On the other hand, if I am waving another's flag with my own, I am to some degree, acknowledging a core part of that person's cultural identity. I am acknowledging that person and culture as a equal to myself and my own culture.

once I was thinking about all the flags i would want to wave, how that would be logistically possible, and reached the conclusion that i would just end up having to wave the united nations flag. lol.

It is possible that I am unusual for thinking this. I did attend a K-12 international school in NYC and I am lucky to be relatively well-traveled. I have many friends who are not American. And of those friends who are American, I have many friends who are from 1st or 2nd generation immigrant families for whom a flag is not so much about supporting a particular government, but about celebrating a cultural identity.

[Olympia]

you can keep it up at night if it's properly lit... and you can fly an all weather flag in the rain. the burning of a damaged flag is ceremonial, and not done disrespectfully.

Thanks for the corrections, Toni. I didn't realize about the lighting at night, but it should have occurred to me. As for the burning of a damaged flag, I read that the Scouts have special flag-burning ceremonies, generally on Flag Day, which is one more thing I've learned by exploring this topic. And that's another point I forgot in my earlier post: we have a special holiday to honor the flag, Flag Day, on June 14. I don't know if any other countries have a flag holiday?

For some reason I suddenly thought of that made-up TV program the two characters on The Big Bang Theory have, "Fun with Flags." Since I've only been to one live skating competition (>sniffle<), I've never actually thought about whether I'd display another country's flag. I certainly cheer quite happily for skaters from other countries. Go, Daisuke!

[Tonichelle]

Thanks for the corrections, Toni.

My dad's a Naval Vet (he was a Naval Corpsman assigned to the Marines in Vietnam), who works for the VA (med tech), and I live at home. I get a lot of "training" in stuff like this. LOL

[dorispulaski]

http://faq.vfw.org/faq/index.php?View=entry&EntryID=497

The VFW also does proper flag disposal. (Mr. Ski is a Vietnam era vet of the Coast Guard)

All this flag stuff is part of info guys were taught in boot camp, along with knot tying and surfboat rowing (something the USCG doesn't require now).

[Olympia]

I'm glad you guys are around to share that with the rest of us.

When I was growing up, I think there was a lot more of this kind of awareness in the general public. As a very young child, I went to a sleepaway camp where they actually had a bugler (one of the older campers), and we had a flag-raising ceremony every day, with bugle call. We also had reveille every morning and taps every night. The campers took turns being chosen for flag raising and lowering, and we learned how to fold the flag into the triangles. As a result, all those rituals mean a lot to me, and I don't associate them with any particular political view. I just think of them as American.

Taps is especially lovely, and hearing it in the dark on a quiet summer night is a marvelously serene experience. I gather it originated in the Civil War. Those of you who are fans of Richard Rodgers might be familiar with the way he used it in a lovely sequence in the orchestral music he wrote for the World War II documentary Victory at Sea.

[rvi5]

Second, on Canadians. They are certainly enthusiastically patriotic at skating events.....but that is most of the Canadians I personally meet. Those I meet from Quebec seem to have different views....
Any other Canadians want to weigh in?

It could be certain cultural groups within Canada have different attitudes towards patriotism. However since the Parti Quebecois have always wanted to be a separate independent country, it could be related to that (just guessing...any Quebecors here who can comment?). Recently the Parti Quebecois attempted to win a vote to remove the Canadian flag from the Quebec legislature. Since this time the party was elected as a minority government, the vote failed. Still, when push-comes-to-shove during referendums, the majority of Quebecors voted to remain Canadian. Canadian patriotism in Quebec may depend on who you talk with ie. pro or anti separatist.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/pq-lo...ture-1.1066088

[dorispulaski]

I've seen Quebec fans display a Quebec flag while cheering for Joannie Rochette!

[starryxskies]

I've seen Quebec fans display a Quebec flag while cheering for Joannie Rochette!

HA why is that not surprising?

But that is true that Canadians will hold their head high if you give them something to be patriotic about - esp hockey.

[CoyoteChris]

I used to play all three Victory at Sea albums all the time on a turntable (Olympia, tell Toni what a record player is...she wont know) when I was in high school. I think some skaters could do worse than skating to a few of those songs....

I'm glad you guys are around to share that with the rest of us.

When I was growing up, I think there was a lot more of this kind of awareness in the general public. As a very young child, I went to a sleepaway camp where they actually had a bugler (one of the older campers), and we had a flag-raising ceremony every day, with bugle call. We also had reveille every morning and taps every night. The campers took turns being chosen for flag raising and lowering, and we learned how to fold the flag into the triangles. As a result, all those rituals mean a lot to me, and I don't associate them with any particular political view. I just think of them as American.

Taps is especially lovely, and hearing it in the dark on a quiet summer night is a marvelously serene experience. I gather it originated in the Civil War. Those of you who are fans of Richard Rodgers might be familiar with the way he used it in a lovely sequence in the orchestral music he wrote for the World War II documentary Victory at Sea.

[CoyoteChris]

Well put, Olympia. I grew up in 1950s America and there was no ambiguity about the meaning of the US flag. You pleadged allegiance to it every day....you were constantly being made aware of how much patriots suffered and died so we could fly that flag.
The Star Spangled Banner is all about the flag. When our skaters take a tour of the rink with an American Flag drapped over their shoulders, I am fine with that. They have honored themselves,their families and their country. If someone else wants to wave a flag of another country, that is fine....no harm no foul, but I wont.

I think the meaning of the flag is very different in the U.S. from what it is in most other countries. It has a profound significance that goes even beyond general patriotism, it seems to me. For example, I don't know of any other country that has a pledge of allegiance directly to the flag itself. (The pledge goes on to say "And to the republic for which it stands," but it starts being addressed to the flag.)

Additionally (and I don't know whether this is true of other countries), there are all sorts of rules about how to treat the flag respectfully: for example, you're not supposed to step on it, or to let it touch the ground or trail in water. In fact, you're really not supposed to keep it flying after sundown or in bad weather, though a lot of people and businesses disregard that one. To store a flag, there's a special way to fold it; you don't just fold it in two or roll it up. Here's an ironic point: with all the anger over flag-burning in this country (it's sometimes done as a form of protest and provocation), the proper way to dispose of a flag that has become torn or damaged is to burn it.

I wonder whether any other countries have as much ritual surrounding their flags. Does anyone know of other examples?

[Tonichelle]

I used to play all three Victory at Sea albums all the time on a turntable (Olympia, tell Toni what a record player is...she wont know) when I was in high school. I think some skaters could do worse than skating to a few of those songs....

Bet me, we still have one and use it! :-p my first albums that I owned were vynal! (Chipmunks Christmas and rock albums)

[Olympia]

I love Victory at Sea. I think I had two of the albums. I especially love "Theme of the Fast Carriers" and "Beneath the Southern Cross."

That's true: our national anthem is about our flag. In fact, it's the story of one specific event during a particular battle that the song's author witnessed. Though from time to time I wish our anthem would be changed to "America the Beautiful," because it's more lyrical (and easier to sing!) and more about the land itself, there is a certain bracing appeal to "The Star-Spangled Banner," which deals with a war that almost ended our country less than fifty years after it started.

[CoyoteChris]

Yea!!! Toni has a Victrola! Olympia, I like those songs too...
I will be in and out as we are having internet issues with the snow on the trees blocking our microwave path....stupid trees keep growing....
Extra credit...which song did R and H adapt to "No Other Love"?

I love Victory at Sea. I think I had two of the albums. I especially love "Theme of the Fast Carriers" and "Beneath the Southern Cross."

That's true: our national anthem is about our flag. In fact, it's the story of one specific event during a particular battle that the song's author witnessed. Though from time to time I wish our anthem would be changed to "America the Beautiful," because it's more lyrical (and easier to sing!) and more about the land itself, there is a certain bracing appeal to "The Star-Spangled Banner," which deals with a war that almost ended our country less than fifty years after it started.