R&H are Ralph & Hill?
R&H are Ralph & Hill?
You are soooooo funny.....Rogers and Hammerstein...... Richard Rogers did the composing for Victory at see and a few other little know works
2.3 State Fair
3 South Pacific
3.2 The King and I
3.4 Flower Drum Song
3.5 The Sound of Music
"The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature."
http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...df/RL30243.pdf (see p. CRS-7)
I hope you don’t mind, but I would like to take this thread back to the original subject.
My advice for anybody buying flags is, where possible, buy in a shop rather than buy online. Because, when you buy online, you can’t be sure of the quality you are going to get.
I currently own 4 flags (all 5ft X 3ft), and the quality has varied greatly.
The first flag I bought was of British Hong Kong (the family of the girl I fancied at the time was originally from HK). I bought it in a tourist shop in Edinburgh, so I was able to see the quality before I bought. And the quality was what swayed me to buy it – it was very thick! OK, so it was a lot more expensive (£12) than the other flags I have bought but, as it was the first flag I bought, I didn’t really know what price flags should be.
The second flag I bought was of the Kingdom of Prussia (I think the design is absolutely beautiful!) I bought it on eBay, and it cost £3.07. I was very disappointed - it was so thin that you could see through it! But, it is the sort of flag that you can’t get from too many places, so I didn’t complain.
The third flag I bought was a German state flag. I bought it on eBay, and it cost £3.55. The quality was the same as the Hong Kong flag, so I was obviously delighted with it... especially when it was so much cheaper than the HK flag!
The fourth flag I bought was a Czech flag (I am a big fan of a Czech guy who races motorbikes here in Ireland). I bought it on eBay, and it cost £3.50. It was as thin as the Prussian flag, but the sewing wasn’t great. But, worst of all, the grommets were rusted, and when the flag was folded, they had left a stain on the material they were touching. I complained, and was given a full refund.
So, you have to be very careful when buying online, as you can’t judge the quality from the price.
I would like to buy more flags, but the differences in quality has put me off buying online. And, I don’t know any shops in Northern Ireland that sell flags which are not local flags.
At the moment, there are 2 flags I am specifically looking to buy (for reasons which will become obvious when I tell you what they are!) Now, the thing is that I have only found 1 website (magFlags) that sells 1 of these flags (the first), and the price is frankly extortionate - £70!!!
So, can anybody point me towards somewhere where I can get the following flags (5ft X 3ft) at a reasonable price:
Glazovsky District (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fl...dmurtia%29.svg)
(In case you are wondering why I have not included the flag of Glazov town itself, I don’t really like the design of that particular flag. It is too wishy-washy)
Obviously, I would prefer a website that is in English. But, I could probably work out how to place an order on a website in most other Western European languages. But, I would definitely not be confident enough doing it on a website written in Cyrillic characters.
If anybody could help, I would appreciate it very much
CaroLiza_fan, you are obviously a flag-lover of great accomplishment. The flag of Prussia, forsooth! Is it the one with that beautiful heraldic eagle? and I'm sure they're not making British Crown Colony flags of Hong Kong anymore. I do hope you find the flags you're looking for, Udmurtia and the Glazovsky District, but I suspect that will only whet your eagerness for other unusual flags, such as Sikkim and--hmmm, did the Hanseatic League have a flag? I hope you'll keep us updated.
You win the big enchilata! Southern Cross it is. I wonder if other countries have stringent rules about their flags? I believe it is wrong to let our flag touch the ground, for instance. Very oddly, this rule is now completeely broken on a regular basis by our US military at what kind of specific event? 10 points for each right answer. (Memorial services are not counted)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fl..._1892-1918.svg) I just fell in love with it the first time I saw it. As you say yourself, the eagle is absolutely beautiful, and a lot of work must have gone into designing all the intricate details of it.
As for the British Hong Kong flag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fl..._Kong_1959.svg), I did not realise that it was not being made any more. But, it was about 5 years ago that I bought it, so it was probably the last of old stock.
By the way, I know Patrick Chan and Michelle Kwan have both got parents from Hong Kong. But does anybody know of any other skaters currently competing that are either from HK themselves or whose families are from HK?
Well, I wouldn’t say that I specifically go out looking for unusual flags. There are normally reasons why I want to own particular flags – either that I particularly like the design, or that I like something (or somebody) from that place. I have already explained in my previous message about why I bought the HK, Prussian and Czech flags.
The reason I bought the German state flag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fl...28state%29.svg) is that I have always been a big fan of all things German (history, culture, music, motorbike racers, F1 drivers, girls…) But it always winds me up whenever I see an upside-down German flag (a common problem with stripy flags). So, with having a flag with the eagle on it, everybody knows which way up it should be!
I would also like to buy some other national flags sometime: –
Austria (because I support so many Austrian ski-jumpers, and I think the eagle is beautiful)
Brazil (because I have supported so many Brazilian F1 drivers, and I think the flag is beautiful)
Italy (because I support so many Italian motorbike riders, especially Valentino Rossi)
Japan (because I support so many Japanese motorbike riders and figure skaters)
Russia (because I support so many Russian figure skaters, as well as motorbike rider Vladimir Leonov)
But, I am going to leave looking for these until I get to a shop. Like, these flags are relatively common, so I can shop around until I find a good quality one at a reasonable price! :D
And as for the flags I am currently searching for, I think it is suffice to say that Liza Tuktamysheva is from Glazov, Udmurtia. I am absolutely smitten with this girl. For somebody so young, she is such a great skater, and is so beautiful. (I also think the flag of Glazovsky District is beautiful!) So, if I ever do get to go to a skating competition, I want a flag that shows just which skater it is that I am supporting the most!
And as for your question about the Hanseatic League, I can’t find anything about it having a single flag. However, I did find a page on Wikipedia about the flags of the individual cities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_flags), and they nearly all seem to have red and white flags. So, if there was a single Hanseatic League flag, it would probably have been of these colours.
Don’t worry, I will let you know if I have any joy in my search. But, don’t hold your breath in the mean time!
Your next step is looking for heraldic devices. Some are on the flags (like the eagle of Prussia). But others are on the countries' coats of arms or elsewhere. For example, the Great Seal of the United States has our device the bald eagle (not colored according to the rules of heraldry, but naturally colored), whereas our flag does not. The fleur de lys of France is not on the French flag. Several countries including Austria (during its empire days), Prussia, and Russia have heraldic style eagles, facing forward--a position called "displayed" in heraldic language. Anyway, Russia has a gorgeous double eagle, displayed.
Russia's double eagle
Here's Udmurtia's coat of arms. It looks more modern in origin.
I found pretty much the same about the Hanseatic League. You're probably right; if there was a flag, it would probably be red and white.
Wales has its heraldic device, the red dragon, on its flag. The red dragon is displayed in the position called passant, which means it's in profile and I think specifically that one foreleg is up. The British lion is rampant, meaning up on its hind legs facing sideways, I believe. I'll get out one of my books and look later on.
I bet you find a lot of other great heraldic devices as you go flag-hunting. I agree with you, by the way, that Brazil has a wonderful flag, very individual. Can't mistake it for the flag of any other country. I also love Canada's flag, with the maple leaf.
What an enjoyable topic this is turning out to be!
History geek alert: By the way, I've heard that the insignia of the Red Cross originates from the reverse colors of the Swiss flag, which is white cross on a field of red. Because Switzerland, the origin of the RC movement, was and is a neutral country, using its flag as the basis for the symbol underlined the neutrality of the Red Cross, so that its workers would be trusted in all countries. Of course in Muslim countries a cross would not be suitable, so their chapters of the organization use a crescent and are called the Red Crescent. I think Israel uses a red diamond shape called a Red Crystal.
I had always heard about the Magen David also, but when I looked it up while I was writing that post, the article talked about some sort of agreement to use this "red crystal." So I was totally confused but would far rather see the Star of David be the symbol, because of course it is more easily recognizable and more distinctive. So I hope you're right.
Last edited by Olympia; 12-24-2012 at 07:35 AM.
OK, Olympia, you’ve dragged it out of me. I was trying to avoid sounding like somebody who is deeply interested in flags and their history. But, seeing as I have finally found somebody who has the same interest, I am dropping the veil!
A lot of striped flags (particularly in Europe) are derived from coats of arms. Here is a selection:
Belgium (vertical stripes): Gold (yellow) lion with red claws on a black background (order changed on flag to make it resemble French Tricolore).
Germany (horizontal stripes): Black eagle with red claws on a yellow background.
Malta (vertical stripes): White Maltese Cross on a red background.
Poland (horizontal stripes): Silver (white) eagle on a red background.
Slovakia (horizontal stripes): White cross on top of a blue mountain on a white background.
Ukraine (horizontal stripes): Golden (yellow) lion on blue background (order reversed – see below).
Bohemia (horizontal stripes): Red lion on a white background.
Brandenburg (horizontal stripes): Red eagle on a white background.
Lower Austria (horizontal stripes): Golden (yellow) eagles on a blue background (colours reversed).
Tyrol (horizontal stripes): Red eagle on a white background.
Tyrone (vertical stripes): Red hand on a white background.
Upper Silesia (horizontal stripes): Yellow eagle on a blue background.
Utrecht (horizontal stripes): White cross on a red background.
Vienna (horizontal stripes): White cross on a red background (colours reversed).
Voralberg (horizontal stripes): Red gonfanon on a silver (white) background.
Westphalia (horizontal stripes): White horse on a red background.
I have long had a belief that all flags that are derived from coats of arms should display that coat of arms somewhere on the flag. It would prevent confusion arising as to whose flag it is when there are many flags which use the same basic design.
Look at how many red-and-white horizontal bi-colours I have in my list. If there were no coat of arms, how would you tell the difference between the flags of Bohemia (where Tomáš Verner is from), Brandenburg, the Tyrol (and, for that matter, South Tyrol, where Carolina Kostner is from), Vienna and Voralberg?
Also, if there is no coat of arms, it would be easy to fly the flags upside-down. So, you could easily confuse the flags of Poland, Utrecht and Westphalia (where Isabel Drescher is from) with those flags I mentioned in the previous paragraph.
Similarly, were it not for the flag of Malta having a picture of the George Cross on the white stripe, it would be easy to confuse it with an upside-down flag of Tyrone (where I am from) Although, you certainly could not confuse the weather of these 2 places!!!
As well as flying flags upside-down, there can be confusion caused when countries deliberately reverse the order of the colours of their flags. The best example is the Ukraine. The flag was originally a yellow-blue horizontal bi-colour, as translated from the coat of arms. But, the people in the Ukraine were consistently flying the flag upside down, with the blue at the top rather than the yellow. I suppose they thought that the blue looked like sky, and the yellow like the land. In the end, the government decided to make this upside-down version official.
The result was that the flag of the Ukraine was no longer the same as the flag of Upper Silesia. So, less confusion! On the other hand, for some reason (which I don’t know), Lower Austria also uses a blue-yellow horizontal bi-colour, when in theory it should be yellow-blue. So, more confusion!
Other examples are Albania; British Columbia; Gibraltar; Kiribati; the Isle of Man; Maryland; Northern Ireland (where Jenna McCorkell and I are both from); the Orkney Islands; South Holland (which is identical to the Scottish Royal Standard); all the provinces of Ireland (including Ulster, where Jenna McCorkell and I are both from); most of the Swiss Cantons.
You know, it’s amazing what you accidentally find out when you are trying to find out something else! It was only when I was writing this message that I found out that Alyona and Tatiana were BOTH from the Ukraine! I had known for years that Alyona was, but it was only Christmas Eve that I found out about Tatiana. I always thought she was Russian. Well, I suppose that explains why there is such a strong rivalry between the 2 partnerships!
I was referring to my books of heraldry. I have a few books that tell about the language and crests and so forth; it's so fascinating.
We think of heraldry as mostly European, for good reason, but other places have crests and insignia. One of the most fascinating non-European crest systems is the Japanese family crests. As you would expect, they're beautiful. I don't know which families have crests, whether you have to be of a certain rank in Japanese tradition, but here they are:
I'd suspect that Nobunari Oda, who is descended from a samurai family, has a crest.