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Thread: The New judging system kills figure skating and loses the beauty of sport

  1. #106
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    How so? I assume plushyfan simply took the last WC under 6.0 and compared it with the current WC under CoP. She couldn't influence the WC titles.
    Yes. My first idea was Plushenko's Moonlight Sonata SP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPLHGSA6cos, because I really adore, adore it, but I remembered that it was his first SP under COP. So, I showed the last SP, wich won WC.

    ( two comment to Moonlight Sonata's another video

    "This is a lesser known program compared with his other more famous ones, probably because he did not compete much that season due to injuries. But what a haunting and stunningly beautiful program!

    A modern interpretation of Beethoven's timeless music, so demure and subtle, and yet with heart-felt passion and sensitivity. It gave us glimpse of longing, bewilderment and vulnerability, combined with the loftiness and sweetness. Only the genius knows how to interpret another genius."

    "There is something metaphysical in his skating..." )
    Last edited by plushyfan; 12-13-2012 at 12:06 PM.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRK View Post
    To those who keep harping on the fact that plushyfan's choices aren't scientific proof or whatever - well, of course not; she (?) already said so herself, so pointing this out is scarcely, if you'll excuse my saying it, rocket science.
    Do you want to know why it keeps going? There was a saying: One hand clap cannot make sound. Just saying...
    Last edited by Bluebonnet; 12-14-2012 at 10:23 AM.

  3. #108
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ILoveFigures View Post
    Recently I watched some vidoes from the world championships in Nagano in 2002 and it was evident that there were several seats available. At that time Japan only had Fumie Suguri and Takeshi Honda. Look at Japan now. Their skaters dominate both men and ladies and there are butts in every seat at every competition.

    I think most of you neglect how much influence athletes' ability to gain medals mean for the popularity of a sport in a country.
    Don't forget to add Korea to the list. Until Yuna, most people there have never heard or seen figure skating, and the media never covered figure skating. Now her ice shows are sold out within hours, and the media covers figure skating. Lots and lots of youngsters are doing figure skating because of Yuna, even though the training environment is getting worse and worse (the same number of rinks & terrible hours, but more and more aspiring skaters = overcrowding).

    It's obscenely popular in that country because of the success of ONE athlete.

  4. #109
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I think one problem with the Chan short program comnpared to Plushenko's is that Chan had a very visible wild swing/step out on his first element. A causal or first time spectator is likely to say, well, that guy can'r win -- he almost fell down.

    Likewise, a first-time viewer of the men's Grand Pricx Final might say, "They all fell down. Nobody deserves to win."

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebonnet View Post
    Do you want to know why it keeps going? There was a saying: One hand clap cannot make sound. Just saying...
    Ah, you mistake my point, I think. It's just the one aspect of how this PROVES nothing that irks me - otherwise... disucussion is good. In fact, it interests me to read, so selfishly, I just want it to have some variety and move on from one point, that's all. Variatio delectat.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    Don't forget to add Korea to the list. Until Yuna, most people there have never heard or seen figure skating, and the media never covered figure skating. Now her ice shows are sold out within hours, and the media covers figure skating. Lots and lots of youngsters are doing figure skating because of Yuna, even though the training environment is getting worse and worse (the same number of rinks & terrible hours, but more and more aspiring skaters = overcrowding).

    It's obscenely popular in that country because of the success of ONE athlete.
    Not just in arenas in Korea, either. Apparently a good many Koreans got themselves up and traveled to Dortmund to cheer YuNa on there. That kind of traveling couldn't have been easy to arrange, to pay for, or to do (long, long hours on an airplane). I can't imagine that kind of thing happening before YuNa, can you?

  7. #112
    Custom Title plushyfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Not just in arenas in Korea, either. Apparently a good many Koreans got themselves up and traveled to Dortmund to cheer YuNa on there. That kind of traveling couldn't have been easy to arrange, to pay for, or to do (long, long hours on an airplane). I can't imagine that kind of thing happening before YuNa, can you?
    Do you mean that the korean fans traveled to cheer Yuna and it have never happened before with any korean athletes? Maybe. but I'm sure this girl-Son Yeon-jae- has every chance to repeat this, if she can win more big international competitions. She lives in Moscow and she has Russian coach.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1hA3iyDIww in London she was 5th.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR0ABJBh_-4 Son Yeon-jae, who won Korea's first ever gold in rhythmic gymnastics! (손연재)
    Last edited by plushyfan; 12-14-2012 at 09:17 PM.

  8. #113
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    I hope everyone understand what I means now, when I'm said that the new judging system kills figure skating and the beauty of the sport.

    For example : Caroline Zhang 2013 Nationals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhj4RKMSSH4 or Min Jeong Kwak 2012 worlds sp http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzdUDxVBjQY

    These downgraded rule are kiling the sport because everyone don't try the difficulty like Caroline Zhang have did for example.
    This triple loop/triple loop that she did, was beautifully executed and deserve great mark.

    The question that I'm asking now is: Why in the scale of value of a downgraded or underrotated jump http://www.usfsa.org/content/ISU%201...02012-2013.pdf , we can see that a downgraded or underotated jump can have the base mark (0), +1,+2 and +3 ? So, Why the judge doesn't use it when the underotate jump or downgrade look beautiful to watch ?

    I think that the judge should give a skater the mark they want(-3 to +3) and anyway the jump call by the technical specialist will already losing a lot of point by underotated or downgraded, so why further discourage skaters telling them that you worth nothing and your jumps are the value of double jump.

    It makes no sense.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyfan View Post
    Do you mean that the korean fans traveled to cheer Yuna and it have never happened before with any korean athletes? Maybe. but I'm sure this girl-Son Yeon-jae- has every chance to repeat this, if she can win more big international competitions. She lives in Moscow and she has Russian coach.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1hA3iyDIww in London she was 5th.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR0ABJBh_-4 Son Yeon-jae, who won Korea's first ever gold in rhythmic gymnastics! (손연재)
    I meant specifically figure skating. I'm glad to hear about Son Yeon-jae, though. I love rhythmic gymnastics!

  10. #115
    Banned Reginald's Avatar
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    Changes I would make to COP

    -Unlimited number of triple jumps
    -Less penalty on UR's
    -More penalty on falls
    -Re do PCS from ground up

  11. #116
    Rinkside
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    The most serious problem in current judging system is lack of consistency and transparency.
    The judges can manipulate PCS and GOE to make their favorites to win because they are anonymous.
    There are no way for third party to check their fairness and impartiality.
    It leads to lack of consistency, and people are losing confidence and interest in this sport.

  12. #117
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    Sorry, but I still think CoP is a major improvement over the old 6.0 system. CoP is not perfect, but it is evolving and will get better as the years go by.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by jatale View Post
    Sorry, but I still think CoP is a major improvement over the old 6.0 system. CoP is not perfect, but it is evolving and will get better as the years go by.
    Why you need to ask sorry.
    COP is more fair. Why they need anonimousity?? Because of the corrupt Federations asking their own judges to favour their own skaters at ANY price.
    In this way they cannot ask the VERY few honest judges, why didn't vote for its own skater.....

    There are many result, would never happened without COP:
    1. Domnina-Shabalin would won OLYmpic Gold in any circumstances under 6,0.
    2.Virtue/Moir and Davis/White would never be in the top 2 before 2011.
    3.Also these 2 would lose to some (or both) of the Russians from now on a year before Olympia.
    4.Denkova-Staviyski would never been able to win a World (they won 2) titles after being 5th at the Oly.
    5.Plushenko would never loose anything participated in , especially 2010. Oly.
    6. Miki Ando would never win any World title in front of Yu-na or Mao.
    6.Kavaguti-Smirnov would not be out of podium in the Oly 2010.
    7.Amodio would not winning Euro 2011.( I wouldn't mind anyway).

    If nothing else, it did ice dance much more realistic and sport-like than before.
    Unfortunately judges learn quickly and now they know how to use COP......... (both positive and negative way).
    Last edited by bigdeal; 01-28-2013 at 08:57 AM.

  14. #119
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    CoP is far better than 6.0 as it results in skaters pushing themselves to exceed their past results. It also gives skaters the opportunity to recover from a bad SP (like Gold).

    It also encourages harder elements like spins and footwork. Now instead of "Oh, the skater did a nice spin, so they won't get deducted." it's "They did a harder spin, and will be rewarded." which is the right attitude.

    The problem, though, of course is the PCS mark. I think if people are to seriously consider the "sport" aspect of figure skating and mitigate bad judging, the PCS mark has to be less impactful. The good thing is that it rewards good skating skills and choreography, the bad thing is that there are certain skaters no matter how much they improve will not end up being rewarded for it. I'm sure if you counted up the transitions done by a top skater like Joubert (who mainly does three turns and crosscuts and mohawks, rarely rockers/counters/brackets/etc.), there are skaters below him in the ranks who do many harder transitions, e.g. Kovtun, but still get a lower mark just because they're newer on the scene or because the judges have their favourites.

    There have been several examples of skaters winning competitions and being held up by PCS (Kostner at Euros, Asada at NHK, in particular... also Chan at the GPF winning bronze over Javier). This is quite detrimental to the sport. There has been a lot more booing going on at competitions and the fans are the ones who suffer when judging goes awry.

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