The New judging system kills figure skating and loses the beauty of sport | Golden Skate

The New judging system kills figure skating and loses the beauty of sport

coolboogie22

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
The New judging system kills figure skating and loses the beauty of sport

I don't know for the people in this forum. But, for me, I'm a figure skater and I begin to hate figure skating even if it was the sport that I like the most to do.

I think the new scoring system ensures that skaters do not take any risks and make all things easier. For example, women no longer try the triple lutz and replaced by triple toe / triple toe.

Also, I think it becomes redundant, the skater spins with the new system are not at all original, everyone does the same positions to get levels 4.

Really figure skating has lost its beauty, in the past, spins were much more perform to give style and elegance at the choice of music, today's skaters are no longer spins to properly interpret music . Skaters are spins to earn points even if the positions are ugly and they do not fit with the music.

The footwork are also much less interesting. Why skaters can not interpret their music as they want and can not put it the turn and the step like they want to.

For example this kind of skating is missing for me :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMwXYdkSK4g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UlVeNEBFKE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1gJ5H3ubfA

You can really see that in the debut of the new scoring and in the past with the 6,0 system, that the skater was more free and skate more fabulous program because they try the difficulty and the footwork sequence and spin was simply art and beauty for being with the music.

It's sad because, I tell myself that if I begin to not like the sport, guess how the people who knew nothing about skating, how can they love our sport? Nowadays, the element in the program are completely redundant ... What are your thought? Do you think like me that the new system kill figure skating and is the reason why figure skating is less popular year by year?
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I became a fan of figure skating because I though what COP was rewarding is what should be rewarded. I think the footwork is way better. I think the artistry is more interesting. I think the programs are more fascinating.

I do think it's harder to become a fan of figure skating nowadays, but I think IJS/COP is like the third or fourth ranked reason for that.
 

Whitneyskates

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Oh lord. No offense or anything but I am sick to death of this type of thread. First, the current judging system isn't new, it's almost a decade old. Stephanie Rosenthal competed under the COP and perhaps this is just me, but I'm not seeing this huge difference in how people skate now and how they skated then. If anything, COP has made skaters pay more attention to their edges and their jump positions when they take off and when they land. A lot of skaters won a lot of medals with under rotated jumps in the 6.0 (Hello Sarah Hughes) and skaters won medals with falls ( see Ice Dance at the 2002 olympics) so that isn't exclusive to COP. Also, there was some ugy choreography and atrocious footwork going on under 6.0 as well.

I personally think that the COP only kills the beauty of figure skating if the skaters themselves allow it to happen. There have been many beautiful and memorable programs under COP, just like they were under the 6.0 system, but they're has been just as many clunkers.

Again, I mean no offense by anything, I just think this is a tired complaint.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
It's easy to put a rosy glow on the past, but yes, there were indeed PLENTY of mediocre and unmemorable programs in the past. There were PLENTY of judging scandals (my personal favorite being Ice Dance at the SLC games, where Tracy Wilson predicted exactly--and I mean EXACTLY--how Bourne and Kraatz would be screwed--I mean scored--out of a bronze medal). And frankly I agree with both comments above. COP has broadened the scope of focus on more aspects of figure skating besides jumps and spins. And hooray for that.

Of course any system of scoring that depends on subjective opinion (no matter how well-informed) is going to have its problems. That's simply human nature. And people will always argue about the results. And that isn't limited to sports where part of the judging is interpretative rather than quantitative. You want nasty arguments? Come to where I live--New York City-- during the baseball playoffs when the Yankees are, to put it kindly, Not Playing Their Best. Now that is real nastiness.
 

Whitneyskates

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Tracy Wilson predicted exactly--and I mean EXACTLY--how Bourne and Kraatz would be screwed--I mean scored--out of a bronze medal).

I think B&K got the placement they deserved at the 02 games. The real outcry should have been that D&V were screwed out of medal and placed 5th behind two teams who fell and imo, weren't all that great to begin with.
 

WeakAnkles

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
See? There will always be debates about who should have placed where at a competition. It's part of the fun of being a fan. I mean, you can't talk about the weather all the time, right?

PS I agree with you Whitneyskates. It really was a splatterfest of a competition, and not just ON the ice. LOL!
 

creme cup

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
I personally don't take side of old systems.
There were good performances but they were kind of impressive in "impressive" ways.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
I think the new scoring system ensures that skaters do not take any risks and make all things easier. For example, women no longer try the triple lutz and replaced by triple toe / triple toe.

Have you watched the men's discipline lately? The men skate under the IJS too, but at the Grand Prix Final this weekend, of the 6 men who competed, 5 of the 6 attempted at least 2 quads in the LP, and one even went for (and landed!) 3 quads! Even Machida, who is not exactly a top-tier skater per se, went for a quad as well. And the programs were all packed with complex footwork, choreography and transitions. The level of men's skating is possibly the highest it's ever been...ever. Just because the women are in a slump right now doesn't mean the IJS is entirely to blame.

That said, I do agree that the IJS is far from perfect and could definitely use some more tweaks. But I believe the system is slowly improving--the IJS of today is a far different (and IMO, better) creature than earlier incarnations such as the IJS of the mid-2000s. For instance, the recent implementation of the choreographic sequence in the LP has been a great idea, and I think the ISU would do well to further explore down that avenue--like putting in more level-free choreographic elements in the LP, such as a spin or two.
 

Daniel5555

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
It's sad because, I tell myself that if I begin to not like the sport, guess how the people who knew nothing about skating, how can they love our sport? Nowadays, the element in the program are completely redundant ... What are your thought?
Well, 4 years ago I knew nothing about skating, and then suddenly I became a fan, first watching ladies, then starting watching men. Then Yuna Kim, who hooked me into it, temporarily retired, but I kept watching it, because I liked the sport itself. And now I'm very interested in pairs and ice dance, even though before I thought that ice dance is the most boring thing ever.

Do you think like me that the new system kill figure skating and is the reason why figure skating is less popular year by year?
No, I think the main reason why skating is not popular are the fans that constantly whine without any reason. If I had known about the general state of community 4 years ago, I wouldn't join, I think. No offense to those fans, who are actually reasonable and passionate about the sport.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
I think COP has been fine for men's skating and for ice dancing but not for pair skating or the ladies' event. In the ladies event, I miss beautiful spirals and spiral sequences and find that the requirements result in slow and labored footwork and crazy (and ugly) spins. And the strict technical requirements have resulted, not in better technique, but eliminating difficult jumps like the lutz and rewarding things like a double axel-double loop or toe--something Janet Lynn did as a 14 year old a the 1968 Olympics. The ubiquity of the Biellmann position is not a positive development. The men are better able to power through the footwork and spirals and beautiful layback spins were never part of what made their programs memorable. And pairs has become unwatchable under COP, with ugly foot-grabbing and pretzel positions. So I don't disagree entirelywith the original poster.
 

Poodlepal

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
From a spectator standpoint, the sport has declined a lot in recent years. The programs seem much more "cookie cutter" now, not only in terms of what is actually performed on the ice, but also in terms of costuming, music choice, etc. Previous generations of skaters have projected a lot more personality than the current crop, and when you do have someone who's different one year, they are a lot less unique the next year.

The men almost all wear black outfits. Except for Javier, I think everyone else did on today's televised GPF. The music is heavy, serious, non-famous classical music. Daisuke, who in the past did tangos in bright costumes is now just one of the crowd (although I at least recognized his song). The ladies all have buns, also favor very heavy music and seem to favor black (though it's not as bad as with the guys). One program seems to run into another. Agnes Z. and Murakami tried something different one year, but came back the next year with buns and heavy music. You never see tomboy types like Tonya or Debi or Irina, and you don't see showmen like Candeloro, either.

I don't know if the judging system is to blame, but it seems like a lot less personality is projected. Every skater used to have more of a unique style, but as a non-skating tv watcher, I'm just not seeing that anymore. As for Stephanie Rosenthal, she was never seriously a contender, so she had nothing to lose to try something different. Had she learned all the triples and become in the running for a medal, I'm sure she'd put away the robot music and take out the violin concerto.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Have you watched the men's discipline lately? The men skate under the IJS too, but at the Grand Prix Final this weekend, of the 6 men who competed, 5 of the 6 attempted at least 2 quads in the LP...

This would, however, be more impressive if a higher percentage of the quads were actually landed. The typical men's program these days seems to begin with 4T(fall). Then, having gotten the obligatory fall on the quad out of the way, he goes on with the program.
 

Daniel5555

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
And the strict technical requirements have resulted, not in better technique, but eliminating difficult jumps like the lutz and rewarding things like a double axel-double loop or toe--something Janet Lynn did as a 14 year old a the 1968 Olympics.
Yeah, I love this type of argument. Those days most of top junior ladies that are 13 or 14 years old are able to execute 3Lz+3T, but because Janet Lynn executed 2A-2T 40 years ago, the system definitely sucks.

And then some people wonder why I don't like to come to forums, well, because after reading things like those you may start to lose your faith in humanity.
 

Daniel5555

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
This would, however, be more impressive if a higher percentage of the quads were actually landed. The typical men's program these days seems to begin with 4T(fall). Then, having gotten the obligatory fall on the quad out of the way, he goes on with the program.
I kinda fail to see what the system has to do with this. I think it can tweak the number of attempts to do some jumps, but not if they are going to be landed. That depends on skater, not on the system.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Daniel5555 said:
Those days most of top junior ladies that are 13 or 14 years old are able to execute 3Lz+3T...

I am not blaming the scoring system, but how strange it seems that for all those 14-year olds doing 3Lz+3T, where are the top seniors who can manage such content at 18?

It does seem like there is an exchange -- easier jumps, higher PCSs.
 

starryxskies

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
I kinda fail to see what the system has to do with this. I think it can tweak the number of attempts to do some jumps, but not if they are going to be landed. That depends on skater, not on the system.
The point is the base value. You get a lot of points for fully rotating the quad, despite taking a fall on the landing.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
From a spectator standpoint, the sport has declined a lot in recent years. The programs seem much more "cookie cutter" now, not only in terms of what is actually performed on the ice, but also in terms of costuming, music choice, etc. Previous generations of skaters have projected a lot more personality than the current crop, and when you do have someone who's different one year, they are a lot less unique the next year.

The men almost all wear black outfits. Except for Javier, I think everyone else did on today's televised GPF. The music is heavy, serious, non-famous classical music. Daisuke, who in the past did tangos in bright costumes is now just one of the crowd (although I at least recognized his song). The ladies all have buns, also favor very heavy music and seem to favor black (though it's not as bad as with the guys). One program seems to run into another. Agnes Z. and Murakami tried something different one year, but came back the next year with buns and heavy music. You never see tomboy types like Tonya or Debi or Irina, and you don't see showmen like Candeloro, either.

I don't know if the judging system is to blame, but it seems like a lot less personality is projected. Every skater used to have more of a unique style, but as a non-skating tv watcher, I'm just not seeing that anymore. As for Stephanie Rosenthal, she was never seriously a contender, so she had nothing to lose to try something different. Had she learned all the triples and become in the running for a medal, I'm sure she'd put away the robot music and take out the violin concerto.

Some colourful outfits worn by skaters at the GPF:
Daisuke Takahashi
Mao Asada
Yuzuru Hanyu
Ashley Wagner
Patrick Chan
Akiko Suzuki
Takahiko Kozuka
Kiira Korpi

....and so on. I'm at a loss at how IJS is being blamed for skaters wearing black. Isn't that more of a personal preference thing among skaters?

As for memorable and personality-filled programs, I remember as many boring cookie-cutter programs under 6.0 as I do under CoP. Yes, we remember the Alexei Yagudins and the Michelle Kwans and the Philippe Candeloros the most, but there were a lot of just 'crossovers-and-jumps-with token poses' programs as well. We just tend to forget them because they were boring.

This would, however, be more impressive if a higher percentage of the quads were actually landed. The typical men's program these days seems to begin with 4T(fall). Then, having gotten the obligatory fall on the quad out of the way, he goes on with the program.

True, but it's still (relatively) early in the season, and many skaters have been debuting new technically-demanding layouts. Skaters have been using the GP series to fine-tune and adjust to their new programs and jump layouts for the big competitions later in the season....just like under 6.0. Maybe I'll change my tune if Worlds turns out to be very splatty, but based on the level of men's skating right now, I think we will see a World Championships with as many good performances as last year's Worlds.
 
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