Half time show: Thoughts from the season so far - MEN

[LRK]

Oh I don't doubt his chance has long gone. I meant making himself proud in the sense that he'll be happy with his performance in Sochi relative to Vancouver at least. I think realistically he knows about his chances pretty well.

Indeed - and exactly. I mean, how much worse than Vancouver can it be? So, what has he to lose, really? And, saving Florent, as far as I know, no other French guy at his best is likely to do better than Brian at his worst - so why not?

[Buttercup]

I mean, why would he retire? I don't actually believe he'll end up so low (hope springs eternal and what-not - besides, I wasn't reading this forum last year, but I'll wager not many here thought he'd end up 4th... ), but supposing he does, why would that make him want to retire? The Olympics is next year, and he wants to attend - and it's not like there are a whole lot of French guys lining up to take his place - there's Florent and... ?

I think Joubert probably wants to skate at the Olympics in a way he can be proud of. It's not necessarily about the specific placement.

That said, there is the team event. And France has a great dance team, two good men who could split SP/LP duties, a pair that is on the rise and a lady who also appears to be moving up. I don't think they are favorites for a medal, but they are certainly not long shots, either.

[lakeside]

-Joubert will retire after a really low finish at Worlds.

Why would he?

Clarification: I mean, why would he retire? I don't actually believe he'll end up so low (hope springs eternal and what-not - besides, I wasn't reading this forum last year, but I'll wager not many here thought he'd end up 4th... ), but supposing he does, why would that make him want to retire? The Olympics is next year, and he wants to attend - and it's not like there are a whole lot of French guys lining up to take his place - there's Florent and... ?

Pangtongfan always says that about skaters s/he doesn't like, e.g., Plushenko will finish low and embarrass himself at Olympics, Joubert will retire after a really low finish at Worlds. You’ll get used to his/her posts.

Aided by his every grossly inflated PCS and GOE scores,

As for generous GOE

The judges are too generous on Daisuke's jump..especially on UR jumps.

For examples,At GPF His first quad looked UR but he didn't get <.
His 3Lz+2T+2Lo should have gotten< (3Lz+2T+2Lo<) but He got GOE 0.73.

But you do not seem to care about these.

I’ve been busy and stayed away from the forums for a while. When I returned I read that this poster is picking on Patrick in almost every single thread. I watched Patrick’s LP at GPF and did not see his GOE grossly inflated. He made mistakes and was punished for his mistakes. Takahashi, OTOH, was overscored in GOE and PCS, and he under-rotated so many jumps but was not called.

How could he get three -2 GOEs on that hard fall and only -0.29 on that 3A? If you compare the LPs of Patrick and Takahashi and if you’re not biased, then you’ll see Patrick was not grossly inflated in GOE but Takahashi was. As for under-rotated jumps, besides the jumps you mentioned, Takahashi also under-rotated his second 4t. It should’ve been 4t<3t<, and his 3a2t should’ve been 3a<2t<. Takahashi was overscored more than 6 points in TES. If scoring was fair, he should not have won GPF.

[seele]

I checked out the scores again. And I found the mistake.
Daisuke get GOE 0.70 not 0.73 on 3Lz+2T+2Lo.

[itoja]

How could he get three -2 GOEs on that hard fall

What about Chan's two -2 GOEs on much harder fall? And the only obvious under-rotation here was Chan first 4T.

[seele]

What about Chan's two -2 GOEs on much harder fall? And the only obvious under-rotation here was Chan first 4T.

You don't know what UR is?
Patrick's first quad jump is definitely not UR.

Check out Daisuke's 3Lz+2T+2Lo. You can see the UR jump.

Chan's first quad get -2.86, Daisuke -2.71(and this jump looks UR)
Patrick's quad the most of time is fully rotated even if he fall.

Plus Chan's first 3A -0.86, Daisuke's first 3A -0.29

[itoja]

You don't know what UR is?

Can I ask you the same?

[seele]

Can I ask you the same?

Just check out Patrick's first quad and Daisuke's first quad.
Then you can see Patrick's jump is more rotated.

[evangeline]

Just check out Patrick's first quad and Daisuke's first quad.
Then you can see Patrick's jump is more rotated.

That's not what UR is. It doesn't matter whose quad is more rotated, what matters in UR is that the jump is missing no more than 1/4 rotation.

[seele]

I don't want to argue about these things.
But I can't help but think there is double standard for some skaters.
As for Chan,
It seems some people only analyze Chan's protocol and complain about this and that.
If you look at the other skaters', You can find the strange things too.
But they do not seem to care about the others.
(I mean TES. PCS is quite subjective. )

[seele]

That's not what UR is. It doesn't matter whose quad is more rotated, what matters in UR is that the jump is missing no more than 1/4 rotation.

itoja said the only obvious UR jump is Chan's first quad. So I said like this.

If you want to see the obvious UR jump itoja, Check out Daisuke's 3Lz+2T+2Lo.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Chan isnt a strong enough jumper to do something like a quad flip with any degree of regularity. He has always struggled with jump consistency with his current jumps, something like a triple axel is an extremely hard jump for him, so trying to add a quad flip to his programs would be very unwise and would likely lead to a further setback in his confidence after likely even more mistake/fall ridden performances. Not that I am a Chan supporter so that wouldnt bother me at all. Aided by his every grossly inflated PCS and GOE scores, although thankfully the judges scores from him have this season dropped from criminal and killing the sports last ounce of credability to merely grossly inflated, Chan still has a great shot of winning if he were to skate his current programs clean, especialy as Takahashi and Hanyu rarely go clean themselves, and is even in the fight to win not going totally clean, so he is best to try and master what he has now. He is in the final 15 months of his career, and his final legacy will be determined in those 15 months, he isnt realistically going to master any new technical things at this point nor is it worth the risk.

Hmmm.... Firstly, I'd point out that harder jumps come easier to some than to others despite the scale. I'd argue Patrick has a harder time doing a triple loop than a triple flip, and we all know his troubles with triple axel vs the quad.

Secondly, I think it's worth mentioning that his success rate on the quad absolutely ridiculous. He went from falling three times (including on the quad) to landing three over two programs. Twice (Nationals, Worlds - 2011). I think had he seriously put his mind to it, he would've been able to get a quad flip (not the salchow, interestingly).

I think Joubert probably wants to skate at the Olympics in a way he can be proud of. It's not necessarily about the specific placement.

That said, there is the team event. And France has a great dance team, two good men who could split SP/LP duties, a pair that is on the rise and a lady who also appears to be moving up. I don't think they are favorites for a medal, but they are certainly not long shots, either.

Hmmm... I'd argue that realistically, only four teams have a shot a medal: France, Russia, USA, and Canada.

[pangtongfan]

That might be what Joubert is staying in, Plushenko is coming back for, and Evan is trying in vein to come back for. A team medal. None of those skaters have any chance at an individual medal, other than maybe a tiny one at a bronze for Plushenko, but all have a good shot to win a team medal if they can just make their countries Olympic teams somehow, which all but Evan have a good shot of doing.

[starryxskies]

Plu is definitely not just coming back for the the team medal, hell no. He wants to be on that podium alone too
Joubert would be staying in regardless for himself but I do agree on Evan. Good call on that.

[pangtongfan]

Plu is definitely not just coming back for the the team medal, hell no. He wants to be on that podium alone too
Joubert would be staying in regardless for himself but I do agree on Evan. Good call on that.

Plushenko can want what he wants, but he will have to be satisfied with a team medal since that is all he is getting unless it is a splatfest. If Takahashi, Hanyu, or Chan have 3 mistakes or less over the 2 programs, there is no way he is beating any of them.