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Thread: Half time show: Thoughts from the season so far - MEN

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakeside View Post
    If you compare the LPs of Patrick and Takahashi and if you’re not biased, then you’ll see Patrick was not grossly inflated in GOE but Takahashi was. As for under-rotated jumps, besides the jumps you mentioned, Takahashi also under-rotated his second 4t.
    Quote Originally Posted by seele View Post
    You don't know what UR is?
    You both obviously don't. If you want to be taken seriously, bring your evidence. I too said that one dance lift shouldn't count as legal and posted a photo why I think that the tech panel got it wrong. Just keep saying things won't make them true and won't bring your statement any accountability.
    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Plushenko can want what he wants, but he will have to be satisfied with a team medal since that is all he is getting unless it is a splatfest. If Takahashi, Hanyu, or Chan have 3 mistakes or less over the 2 programs, there is no way he is beating any of them.
    You wish, dear. Well, not so much time left to wait afterall.

  2. #47
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Plushenko can want what he wants, but he will have to be satisfied with a team medal since that is all he is getting unless it is a splatfest. If Takahashi, Hanyu, or Chan have 3 mistakes or less over the 2 programs, there is no way he is beating any of them.
    Not really objecting if these 3 skate as good and maybe Fernandez and Kozuka too but also if anyone would have skated to their potential in 2010, any of Kozuka, Lambiel and Abott should have had an Olympic medal now too but reality says otherwise, and in reality still after last Words and the end of this GP season, Plushenko has the 4th total personal best from Euros 2012 and that with an sp of 84 with no quad or quad combo in Lp. At these Euros I expect that the men with two different quads Fernandez, Brezina and Amodio could surpass him, but thats in the papers.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by let`s talk View Post
    You both obviously don't. If you want to be taken seriously, bring your evidence. I too said that one dance lift shouldn't count as legal and posted a photo why I think that the tech panel got it wrong. Just keep saying things won't make them true and won't bring your statement any accountability.
    You wish, dear. Well, not so much time left to wait afterall.
    Hm..To be honest I don't want to talk with you.Usually I even try not to read your post.
    But at least I will try it with my broken English about Chan's first quad. I'll explain it my way.
    Not with 90 right,4/1,
    Chan's first quad - If you see the blade of Chan (at the point of take-off and landing)
    It's nearly in line not like Daisuke's combo jump. There is nothing wrong in Chan's rotation.
    just see that jumps on youtube. It's the much better way.
    You can see the difference.Chan's jump, Daisuke's combo That's all I can say.
    Last edited by seele; 12-14-2012 at 10:50 AM.

  4. #49
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    I found Takasha PCS werid. How he could have the same marks for transitions and SS with Chan?
    And Dai had mistkes in every jump, but judges didnt want to see this. Why?
    Hope Fernandez will win ECh this season.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Not really objecting if these 3 skate as good and maybe Fernandez and Kozuka too but also if anyone would have skated to their potential in 2010, any of Kozuka, Lambiel and Abott should have had an Olympic medal now too but reality says otherwise, and in reality still after last Words and the end of this GP season, Plushenko has the 4th total personal best from Euros 2012 and that with an sp of 84 with no quad or quad combo in Lp. At these Euros I expect that the men with two different quads Fernandez, Brezina and Amodio could surpass him, but thats in the papers.
    Okay if you are going to put Abbott into the mix then you should have added Chan and maybe even Weir.

  6. #51
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I mentioned Abott because his win at Nationals had made a big impact, I remember Eurosport guys commented on that too, and he had fantastic programs that season.

  7. #52
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    There is someone who trust the judges perfectly. Good for them.

    Another obvious UR jump.
    Mao's flip jump in the SP at GPF.
    Of course They don't give a <
    Such a generous judge.

    If you see this jump You can get it.
    No need evidence. Just need eyes.
    Last edited by seele; 12-14-2012 at 04:52 PM.

  8. #53
    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Mod note: please remember to speak of the topic/reply to what's said in a post. Don't bicker and insult each other. We want to keep GS a friendly place for ALL opinions on SKATING.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Okay if you are going to put Abbott into the mix then you should have added Chan and maybe even Weir.
    Weir was never in the mix, not since 2008 anyway. As far as the last Olympics now there is nothing to speculate upon. He did skate his absolute best, the event was a mess, and he still was nowhere near winning a medal, either in terms of placement (6th) or points. Weir was clearly the #3 American going in Vancouver, even though he ended up the #2 U.S finisher due to Abbott's meltdown. Evan or Jeremy were clearly the American men going for medals and who the Europeans and Japanese had reason to fear, not Johnny.

    As for Chan he had an injury mar mediocre season in 09/2010 and was never likely to be a big factor in Vancouver either, although he still was more of a threat than say Kozuka so seniorita should have replaced Kozuka with Chan in his/her comments. Kozuka like Weir was never a real contender in Vancouver, even Oda was more a potential contender than those two (which still wasnt much). The main contenders were always Plushenko, Lysacek, Takahashi, Lambiel, Abbott because of his Nationals performance though a total meltdown would surprise nobody, and perhaps Joubert, Chan and Oda.
    Last edited by pangtongfan; 12-14-2012 at 06:00 PM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by seele View Post
    just see that jumps on youtube. It's the much better way.
    You can see the difference.Chan's jump, Daisuke's combo That's all I can say.
    Quote Originally Posted by seele View Post
    Another obvious UR jump.
    Mao's flip jump in the SP at GPF.
    Of course They don't give a <
    Such a generous judge.

    If you see this jump You can get it.
    No need evidence. Just need eyes.
    Do you know what UR means? It means 1/4 or 90, i.e. if the landing is within |_, then things are fine. Okay, let's watch youtube. Check Dai's landing at 7:19 (Asahi) or 7:29 (CBC). Easy to see. Mao's flip is fine too.
    Quote Originally Posted by cleoc View Post
    I found Takasha PCS werid. How he could have the same marks for transitions and SS with Chan?
    What are you talking about and who is "Takasha"? No one got the same score for TR and SS with Chan. Dai got higher score for Performance, and they got the same score for Choreo. For all the rest Chan got higher score than anyone else, including for Interpretation (lol).

  11. #56
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    It seems that some people don’t know how to identify under-rotated jumps, or they know but don’t want to admit it when their favorites under-rotate jumps. As requested by some posters in this and other threads, I’m going to start a thread on this and will show you what are UR jumps, using Takahashi’s many UR jumps at GPF as examples.

  12. #57
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakeside View Post
    It seems that some people don’t know how to identify under-rotated jumps, or they know but don’t want to admit it when their favorites under-rotate jumps. As requested by some posters in this and other threads, I’m going to start a thread on this and will show you what are UR jumps, using Takahashi’s many UR jumps at GPF as examples.
    Can't wait. Maybe the judges will study the thread so that they will be better informed next time Dai skates.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakeside View Post
    It seems that some people don’t know how to identify under-rotated jumps, or they know but don’t want to admit it when their favorites under-rotate jumps. As requested by some posters in this and other threads, I’m going to start a thread on this and will show you what are UR jumps, using Takahashi’s many UR jumps at GPF as examples.
    That sounds like a productive exercise. I am sure it will foster nothing but fruitful, polite discussions.

    Here's some advice, which I am sure you will ignore: if you want to demonstrate what URd jumps look like, find examples of such jumps performed by skaters who are no longer active in competitive skating. There's no shortage of those and it'll make you seem less trollish.

    A pity that IP's interesting thread has been derailed by this silly bickering about URs and overscoring.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    That sounds like a productive exercise. I am sure it will foster nothing but fruitful, polite discussions.

    Here's some advice, which I am sure you will ignore: if you want to demonstrate what URd jumps look like, find examples of such jumps performed by skaters who are no longer active in competitive skating. There's no shortage of those and it'll make you seem less trollish.

    A pity that IP's interesting thread has been derailed by this silly bickering about URs and overscoring.
    You saw that other posters asked us to show evidence of Takahashi’s UR jumps. I think they know what are UR jumps, but if we show skaters who are no longer active, then those posters who asked us for evidence will keep saying we haven’t provided them evidence because I’m not showing evidence of Takahashi’s UR.

    Plus, just like someone showed picture of why a lift is illegal, when active skaters UR their jumps but are not called, or when active skaters have no steps preceding their solo jumps in the SP, I believe figure skating fans are obliged to point this out.

    If you don’t like to see UR discussion in this nice thread, then I started an UR thread, so hopefully we can remove the UR discussion from this nice thread.

  15. #60
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakeside View Post
    How could he get three -2 GOEs on that hard fall and only -0.29 on that 3A? If you compare the LPs of Patrick and Takahashi and if you’re not biased, then you’ll see Patrick was not grossly inflated in GOE but Takahashi was. As for under-rotated jumps, besides the jumps you mentioned, Takahashi also under-rotated his second 4t. It should’ve been 4t<3t<, and his 3a2t should’ve been 3a<2t<. Takahashi was overscored more than 6 points in TES. If scoring was fair, he should not have won GPF.
    The only thing Takahashi possibly underrotated was the 3t on the end of the Quad. That one was slightly more than 1/4 short. Nothing else was <. It's very clear in the slow-mo video you posted for the 4t that the jump was complete but you simply don't know how to judge these things. The "takeoff" and "landing" shots you posted for the 3t make this extremely clear - you actually have no idea about where a jump really takes off and where it lands, because both pictures were wrong (the first was too early and the second was too late). Moving along, let us look at the clip you provided for the 4t he landed:

    http://www.pictureshack.us/images/39...ashi4T3T_1.gif

    His skate leaves the ice a few degrees past the point where it would be facing the back board. This means his skate needs to land a few degrees past the point where it would be perpendicular to the camera. He definitely did that; he skate lands about 45 degrees past the point where it would be perpendicular to the camera.

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