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Thread: Asada shows improvement

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Slowing down before the jumps is definitely a problem and she never used to do that. She didn't really have a hammer toe in the past either. Look at how good her Flip used to be:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GfZW03lM4

    Her Flip is more inconsistent now than it ever was and the quality hasn't improved at all. She has been working on the Lutz for a long time now and she still flutzes every single time. At least she used to go into the Lutz with total confidence, speed, and incredibly difficult transitions (as seen in her 2008 programs). Her immaculate Triple Loop even went drastically downhill last season, although it thankfully seems to be back in place this season.

    I think continuing to focus on this different technique is wrong for Mao. It hasn't done anything but make her skating worse. She should do what comes naturally to her. Speaking of which, it's really annoying how she hasn't been going for 3Loop on the back-end of combinations in the SP. She used to do that so well and there's no reason why she shouldn't still be doing it, since getting a < call doesn't kill you anymore. 3Loop-3Loop< and 3Flip in the SP is worth more than the current 3Flip-2Loop and 3Loop she has been doing. She's going to NEED those points against Yu-Na and perhaps other emerging skaters too.
    I always respect your analysis. Mao is my favorite current skater no matter what, but even I can tell that her current jump arsenal may not be enough to keep her competitive. Your thought about reconstructing her actual jump plan strategically sounds very useful, because it deals with her capacities as they exist right now. I have two questions based on your explanation:
    1) If she's slowing down before her jumps, is this something that can be dealt with?
    2) If she has been training in this new way for about three years, is there a way for her muscle memory be able to revert to "what comes naturally"?

    She has such astonishing gifts; I really hope she can regain her form. I don't give up on her, because even in this state she's lovely to watch, but I can't see my way from here, at Point A, to the Point B where she needs to be for Worlds and Olympics.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by l'etoile View Post
    What are you saying? Nadia says no sorts of "not adoring" Mao. Mao is adored, surely, but the issue here is that even though she poured more than two seasons on her "reworking technique project," there doesn't seem to be that much of difference in her technique. Her musicality and grace haven't gone anywhere, though, THANK GOD. You really don't need to use those exclamation marks to assert your love for Mao. Everyone knows who you "adore."
    well if people want to see the improvement, they will see it, but when certain people are determined to keep focusing at some little flaw that weren't even noticeable in the actual performance, then go on!

    if you want to see the difference in her technique, then i recommend you to watch her old jumps and notice how much her technique has changed, but if you really where interested in that you would already have done the research, but i guess we all know what your real objective is!

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    Any grief counselor will tell you it could take up to three years for her to fully grieve her mother's death. Obviously though and inexplicably , reworking the jumps has not been a successful undertaking. Time for a new approach, I think. That being said, I don't think any skater seems to float through the air the way she does when she jumps.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Icey View Post
    Any grief counselor will tell you it could take up to three years for her to fully grieve her mother's death. Obviously though and inexplicably , reworking the jumps has not been a successful undertaking. Time for a new approach, I think. That being said, I don't think any skater seems to float through the air the way she does when she jumps.
    I agree, and sometimes I forget that it has only been a year that Mao lost her mother. I think she somehow makes me forget her hardships with her floating skating. She's just gracious. Hope she can really work it out and show better jumps soon.

  5. #20
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    well if people want to see the improvement, they will see it, but when certain people are determined to keep focusing at some little flaw that weren't even noticeable in the actual performance, then go on!

    if you want to see the difference in her technique, then i recommend you to watch her old jumps and notice how much her technique has changed, but if you really where interested in that you would already have done the research, but i guess we all know what your real objective is!
    Your comments would be more constructive if YOU can actually describe and tell us EXACTLY HOW her current jumps are BETTER than what she did in Vancouver, for example, because obviously many people here do not see the improvement that YOU claim to be there.

    Blade of Passion even included a video of her past performance that had better jumps than what I see now.

    Nobody said she can't skate. She does have nice qualities. But is it not true that her jumps aren't what they used to be, despite her working on them for about three years? And three years is enough time to see some significant changes, provided that she received proper coaching. (I do not doubt her work ethic as I know that as a Japanese person, her life motto is "gambaru".)

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    Your comments would be more constructive if YOU can actually describe and tell us EXACTLY HOW her current jumps are BETTER than what she did in Vancouver, for example, because obviously many people here do not see the improvement that YOU claim to be there.

    Blade of Passion even included a video of her past performance that had better jumps than what I see now.

    Nobody said she can't skate. She does have nice qualities. But is it not true that her jumps aren't what they used to be, despite her working on them for about three years? And three years is enough time to see some significant changes, provided that she received proper coaching. (I do not doubt her work ethic as I know that as a Japanese person, her life motto is "gambaru".)
    Of course the jumps in the video that Blade of Passion posted are better than now, but this was not when she decided to start working on them. Three years ago her jumps started to leave her altogether. She wasn't doing a Lutz at all, let alone with speed and power like in that posted earlier video. She was not doing 3S or 2A-3T. Even her flip became unstable that year. She was able to land her 3A at Olympics, but ended up making a mistake on the second flip again. So no, three years ago she wasn't skating like in the posted video, she was already on a downhill. That was the year when she failed to make GPF for the first time too. So even though her jumps are unstable and often underrotated now, I think she is on the right track. She is back to attempting 7 triples; 3S, 2A-3T, and 3Lutz were nonexistant during the Vancouver year and are slowly coming back now.
    I am getting impatient with her slow improvements too, but here are the positives: skating skills improved a lot under Sato, and her speed increased; 2A-3T that she landed in NHK was the best I've ever seen from her; the flutz is less noticeable, and 3S is much more consistent this season than before.
    And this was one of her performances from 3 years ago for comparison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i56LM_wLsgQ

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    I think the 'e' call on the Flip and Lutz give trouble for most of the lady. Reworking on the technique seen to give problem for most of them. Miki and Yuna on Flip, Mao on Lutz, etc...the idea in the head give skater confident issue. Lesser skater just take the lose on -GOE and didn't give too much trouble into it. Just rotate fully and land the jump, whihc is still a lot better point wise than falling or poping the jump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by babayaga View Post
    Of course the jumps in the video that Blade of Passion posted are better than now, but this was not when she decided to start working on them. Three years ago her jumps started to leave her altogether. She wasn't doing a Lutz at all, let alone with speed and power like in that posted earlier video. She was not doing 3S or 2A-3T. Even her flip became unstable that year. She was able to land her 3A at Olympics, but ended up making a mistake on the second flip again. So no, three years ago she wasn't skating like in the posted video, she was already on a downhill. That was the year when she failed to make GPF for the first time too. So even though her jumps are unstable and often underrotated now, I think she is on the right track. She is back to attempting 7 triples; 3S, 2A-3T, and 3Lutz were nonexistant during the Vancouver year and are slowly coming back now.
    I am getting impatient with her slow improvements too, but here are the positives: skating skills improved a lot under Sato, and her speed increased; 2A-3T that she landed in NHK was the best I've ever seen from her; the flutz is less noticeable, and 3S is much more consistent this season than before.
    And this was one of her performances from 3 years ago for comparison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i56LM_wLsgQ
    THIS!

    The fact that she decided to attempt this very difficult process of reworking her technique didn't come out of nowhere. In 2008 she landed those lutzez and flips with big speed, height and power but the technique was bad therefore it was certain that at some point she was going to have troubles with those jumps. Tarasova took Mao with horrible technique and she knew it was simply too late to rework it before Vancouver. Look at her layout in Vancouver: 3A, 3F, 3Lo, 3T. That's all she put into her programs and the flip became inconsistent, I believe due to bad technique. Now she attempts 3S and 3Lz again which is certainly good! There IS improvement and it's owing to her changed technique. Compare her current flip and the flip from Vancouver or before. There is no mule kick anymore and she doesn't lower her upper bodu so much in order to jab her toepick into the ice. The problem is that she slows down going into her flips but the technique has definitely improved.

  9. #24
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    If her goal was doubles it's been improved! There has been basically no improvement on any triple jump.

  10. #25
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    Yes, I think her technique has improved so that it is far more closer to the 'textbook' style, but the technical improvement is now actually causing the under-rotation, and it's because there are still alot of technical changes that still needs to undergo. Coach Sato wanted to change Mao's jumps incrementally, in small steps. So there have been improvements in the way she toe picks and how she holds her upper body and also how she moves her upper body as she takes off, but I think there are still alot of issues that need to be worked through. Right now, I have a feeling they are not only trying to get her to increase her entry speed, but also trying to get her to use a different set of muscles from the ones she used to to torque her body. Coach Sato predicted that Mao would have to rework her jump technique until the very last minute leading up to Sochi. As a fan, I hope she'll make the deadline.

  11. #26
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderlen3000 View Post
    I think the 'e' call on the Flip and Lutz give trouble for most of the lady. Reworking on the technique seen to give problem for most of them. Miki and Yuna on Flip, Mao on Lutz, etc...the idea in the head give skater confident issue. Lesser skater just take the lose on -GOE and didn't give too much trouble into it. Just rotate fully and land the jump, whihc is still a lot better point wise than falling or poping the jump.
    Yuna never got edge calls on her flip, except that one time, which I thought was strange. (Afterward she changed her 3F/3T to 3Lz/3T b/c that's where she got her call at the Worlds. That tech caller never gave Yuna another edge call again)

    Mik did have a noticeable lip, but she fixed it in 1 or 2 seasons, in time for Vancouver.

  12. #27
    Custom Title Nadia01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartek View Post
    THIS!

    The fact that she decided to attempt this very difficult process of reworking her technique didn't come out of nowhere. In 2008 she landed those lutzez and flips with big speed, height and power but the technique was bad therefore it was certain that at some point she was going to have troubles with those jumps. Tarasova took Mao with horrible technique and she knew it was simply too late to rework it before Vancouver. Look at her layout in Vancouver: 3A, 3F, 3Lo, 3T. That's all she put into her programs and the flip became inconsistent, I believe due to bad technique. Now she attempts 3S and 3Lz again which is certainly good! There IS improvement and it's owing to her changed technique. Compare her current flip and the flip from Vancouver or before. There is no mule kick anymore and she doesn't lower her upper bodu so much in order to jab her toepick into the ice. The problem is that she slows down going into her flips but the technique has definitely improved.

    They were due to bad technique. I think Arutunian recognized her technique issues, but somebody on her team wanted him to stop coaching Mao jumps (thinking that it was a worthless effort since Mao's jumps were so "good"). If he'd been able to rework her technique back then, things might have been very different in Vancouver.

  13. #28
    Custom Title mary01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    Yuna never got edge calls on her flip, except that one time, which I thought was strange. (Afterward she changed her 3F/3T to 3Lz/3T b/c that's where she got her call at the Worlds. That tech caller never gave Yuna another edge call again)

    Mik did have a noticeable lip, but she fixed it in 1 or 2 seasons, in time for Vancouver.
    yeah but there is a big difference between a skater changing her technique on one jump, and when a skater suddenly changes her technique on several, including adding combo's and jumps she didn't attempt for a whole season. so naturally it takes more time!

    I think she has done amazing, by changing her technique, during such a short period of time (and it was a short period of time when considering the huge changes she has made) and under the personal circumstances she was under.
    Last edited by mary01; 12-17-2012 at 02:28 AM.

  14. #29
    Simply the best. l'etoile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mary01 View Post
    yeah but there is a big difference between a skater changing her technique on one jump, and when a skater suddenly changes her technique on several, including adding combo's and jumps she didn't attempt for a whole season. so naturally it takes more time!

    I think she has done amazing, by changing her technique, during such a short period of time (and it was a short period of time when considering the huge changes she has made) and under the personal circumstances she was under.
    Her flip technique in particular stands out in terms of change. I was really stunned that she removed the mule-kick but I hoped that she would change mohawk turn entry into three-turn entry which would give her much better momentum and speed going into it.

  15. #30
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babayaga View Post
    Of course the jumps in the video that Blade of Passion posted are better than now, but this was not when she decided to start working on them. Three years ago her jumps started to leave her altogether. She wasn't doing a Lutz at all, let alone with speed and power like in that posted earlier video. She was not doing 3S or 2A-3T. Even her flip became unstable that year. She was able to land her 3A at Olympics, but ended up making a mistake on the second flip again. So no, three years ago she wasn't skating like in the posted video, she was already on a downhill. That was the year when she failed to make GPF for the first time too. So even though her jumps are unstable and often underrotated now, I think she is on the right track. She is back to attempting 7 triples; 3S, 2A-3T, and 3Lutz were nonexistant during the Vancouver year and are slowly coming back now.
    Mao's 3S, 2A-3T, and 3Lutz were only "non-existant" during the Vancouver year because that's what her coaching team decided upon. She was still perfectly capable of doing those jumps at that time. She completely stopped trying the xxx-3T combinations and the 3Lz in the Long Program after the 2007-2008 season, which was when she stopped getting coached by Arutunian. Mao's jumping was at her best when she was with him. He fixed the poor toeloop technique she had earlier in her career and her Triple Axels were better than ever when she started training with him.

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