Asada shows improvement | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Asada shows improvement

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
what the heck are you talking about? look at what was said, the report said that she attempted two during her practice, and both where landed and looked gourges in the air!

one can assume and imagine all one want's too, but in the end what really happens is what matters! and what was reported and filmed was amazing news, I find it really puzzling how some are trying to turn positve news into something negative lol

Uhh I am only going by Hurrah's report, and will please calm yourself down? If I am mistaken then thanks for the correction.

The only one imagine anything on this board seems to be you to do with hypothetical BVs lol! She really did two? Funny, all I see on the video is they replayed the jump three times, but then I don't understand the Japanese language. The thing is if she can do it, why not bring it? Strategy are for the weak, you should always bring your very best every time you step on the ice.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Japan loves the big tricks, so it doesn't surprise me that they would make a big deal about Mao landing a few 3As in practice. I don't think it hurts to mention it; it means she's still working on it. Of course, that isn't necessarily an indicator that it's competition ready.

For example, there has been reports that Ashley Wagner has been landing 2A-3T + 3F-3T in practices at Skate America and at home, but as she has declined to do them in competition it means it's not quite ready for prime time.
 

mary01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Uhh I am only going by Hurrah's report, and will please calm yourself down? If I am mistaken then thanks for the correction.

The only one imagine anything on this board seems to be you to do with hypothetical BVs lol! She really did two? Funny, all I see on the video is they replayed the jump three times, but then I don't understand the Japanese language. The thing is if she can do it, why not bring it? Strategy are for the weak, you should always bring your very best every time you step on the ice.

Because there was no need for it and because she was injured, and three month short of practice, so why would she attempt something that would agravate her injury further, her health comes in first place, the axel can wait.
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Tell that to Sui Wenjing...strategy are for the smart IMO
EDIT: I believe this is her second 3A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjW7-NcVheA

Look i am not trying to take anything away from her. If she can do the 3A then do it already.

Considering the amount of work JSU has managed to pull all the rules changes in her favour. Minimise GOE scale values therefore reduce the importance of quality across the board for every other lady. Reduce penalties for UR. Reduce penalties for wrong edge which minimize the importance for correct technique. Have a totally separate GOE scale of values just for the tripe axle as well as increase its base values by 0.5 as well as the 3loop. If she doesn't bring it, it would completely waste years of work behind the scenes to ensure the field favours her.

Yes ...strategy should matter but it is also the main difference between a serious performance sport (marked in accordance to performance on the day and treat all competitors equally from ground zero) vs a game sport (made impressions consist of media play and hype over a season, as well as star billing, which certainly does impact human judgement).
 
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Bartek

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Wow, those triple axels were beautiful. She certainly must have kept practicing them; otherwise she wouldn't be able to land them. Both were beautiful with fantastic tight air position. The second one would be given < but the first one would be ratified! That's quite an achievement to land a fully rotated triple axel among the ladies, isn't it? I would love her to give it a shot but I understand she may prefer to go for a clean program without such a risky element.

It was very wise for Tarasova to put that position with the leg above the hip right after the lutz. When landed cleanly with good flow like in the practice video it will make up for the change of edge and Mao will likely get 0's instead of mostly -2's or -1's.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2011
That was gorgeous! I love Mao's air position in those clips. It's much better than it is in her usual triples.
 

chloepoco

Medalist
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Look i am not trying to take anything away from her. If she can do the 3A then do it already.

Considering the amount of work JSU has managed to pull all the rules changes in her favour. Minimise GOE scale values therefore reduce the importance of quality across the board for every other lady. Reduce penalties for UR. Reduce penalties for wrong edge which minimize the importance for correct technique. Have a totally separate GOE scale of values just for the tripe axle as well as increase its base values by 0.5 as well as the 3loop. If she doesn't bring it, it would completely waste years of work behind the scenes to ensure the field favours her.

Yes ...strategy should matter but it is also the main difference between a serious performance sport (marked in accordance to performance on the day and treat all competitors equally from ground zero) vs a game sport (made impressions consist of media play and hype over a season, as well as star billing, which certainly does impact human judgement).

Oh, please. Paranoid, much?
 

gmyers

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 6, 2010

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Oh, please. Paranoid, much?

Oh, please. In denial much? :)

If it is one thing, i wouldn't have batted an eye, but when it is a whole series of major changes all goes on at the same time, how is it circumstantial?
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
If it is one thing, i wouldn't have batted an eye, but when it is a whole series of major changes all goes on at the same time, how is it circumstantial?

Most of those changes (UR, wrong edge deductions) benefit almost every female skater. Only increasing the value of the 3A directly benefits Mao, but I think it's proper because the jump is much harder than was reflected in the previous code.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Most of those changes (UR, wrong edge deductions) benefit almost every female skater. Only increasing the value of the 3A directly benefits Mao, but I think it's proper because the jump is much harder than was reflected in the previous code.

I would say it like this. More lenient UR and wrong edge rules benefit all female skaters who flutz and under-rotate their jumps. For those skaters who don't, the new rules are relatively disadvantageous.

I think if you look at Kim's Olympic free skate, it seems like the ISU went pretty much right down the line to level the playing field. As Mary01 points out, Kim's biggest advantage was that she got 11.00 points in GOEs for her jumps. This is more than an extra quad. Under the new rules, with the same judging, she would get only 7.7 points. (The new rules would have reduced Asada's score by only 0.58 points.)

The biggest thing, though, is the new post-Olympic rule that prevents three double Axels. Kim did 2A+2Lo+2T, 2A+3T, and solo 2A. The new rule negates the advantage of any skater who wants to attempt two triple-triples or a triple-triple plus a 2A-triple. If you do too many triple-triples you are Zayaked out with nothing to fill your seventh pass with.

In principle this rule affects all skaters (and I actually think it is a good rule). But in actual fact it inconveniences only those skaters who do can do 3/3 and 2A/3T. In contrast, a skater with a triple Axel is home free -- she can do 3A, a triple-triple, and still do two 2A's at the end if she does not have the full complement of jumps.
 

cooper

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
I would say it like this. More lenient UR and wrong edge rules benefit all female skaters who flutz and under-rotate their jumps. For those skaters who don't, the new rules are relatively disadvantageous.

I think if you look at Kim's Olympic free skate, it seems like the ISU went pretty much right down the line to level the playing field. As Mary01 points out, Kim's biggest advantage was that she got 11.00 points in GOEs for her jumps. This is more than an extra quad. Under the new rules, with the same judging, she would get only 7.7 points. (The new rules would have reduced Asada's score by only 0.58 points.)

The biggest thing, though, is the new post-Olympic rule that prevents three double Axels. Kim did 2A+2Lo+2T, 2A+3T, and solo 2A. The new rule negates the advantage of any skater who wants to attempt two triple-triples or a triple-triple plus a 2A-triple. If you do too many triple-triples you are Zayaked out with nothing to fill your seventh pass with.

In principle this rule affects all skaters (and I actually think it is a good rule). But in actual fact it inconveniences only those skaters who do can do 3/3 and 2A/3T. In contrast, a skater with a triple Axel is home free -- she can do 3A, a triple-triple, and still do two 2A's at the end if she does not have the full complement of jumps.

well.. if that's what ISU is aiming for then i'm literally annoyed. i mean if they want to give incentives to a lady skater who can do all that then why is it the current ladies are not doing anything with their current jump layouts. majority of them are playing safe..
if that's the case yuna should not take the risk by going 3/3 in both of her sp and lp.. after all you can win even if you're playing safe..
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
The biggest thing, though, is the new post-Olympic rule that prevents three double Axels. Kim did 2A+2Lo+2T, 2A+3T, and solo 2A. The new rule negates the advantage of any skater who wants to attempt two triple-triples or a triple-triple plus a 2A-triple. If you do too many triple-triples you are Zayaked out with nothing to fill your seventh pass with.

In principle this rule affects all skaters (and I actually think it is a good rule). But in actual fact it inconveniences only those skaters who do can do 3/3 and 2A/3T. In contrast, a skater with a triple Axel is home free -- she can do 3A, a triple-triple, and still do two 2A's at the end if she does not have the full complement of jumps.

Talking in terms of Yuna, would this rule inconvenience her if she hypothetically could do a 3Lo? i.e. someone with a legit. full set of triples (with the exception of the triple axel).
 

babayaga

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
I agree that the new rule about no 3 2A does not favor Yuna, but I think it is a good rule overall, consistent with restrictions on other triple jumps. Under old rules for GOE, some double axels would score as much as a triple jump with no GOE, so in my opinion it is very reasonable that the same restrictions that exist for triples would apply for 2A. Why should one not be able to repeat a triple more than twice, but allowed to repeat a 2A many times which is worth almost as much? I remember there were some programs with even 4 double axels. Also, with the way GOE was applied under old rules some double axels could score as much as triple flip with zero GOE which probably shouldn't be the case. So I agree with that reduction as well. So even though one can argue that the rule changes did not favor Yuna Kim specifically, I think most of them are quite reasonable in general.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
well.. if that's what ISU is aiming for then i'm literally annoyed. i mean if they want to give incentives to a lady skater who can do all that then why is it the current ladies are not doing anything with their current jump layouts. majority of them are playing safe.

I agree. Until the ISU gives a bonus for doing more difficult content (i.e. a 3Z-3T plus a solo 2A having a higher base value than a 2A-3T with a solo 3Z) there is no reason to do a 3-3 in the long. I think with Yuna back the ladies are going to have to improve their jump content to be competitive, and I suspect that's a big reason why Caro is trying the lutz again.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Talking in terms of Yuna, would this rule inconvenience her if she hypothetically could do a 3Lo? i.e. someone with a legit. full set of triples (with the exception of the triple axel).

Gracie Gold can do both a 3-3 and a 2A-3T (or another 3-3) due to having a full set of triples (whether she actually executes the planned layout is another story).

Here's her layout last year

3Z-3T
2A-3T
3L
3F
3Z*
2A-2T-2L*
3S*

two -3T combos, 7 triples, repeats the 3Z and 3T.

Here's her layout this year.

3Z-3T
3F-1L-3S
2A
3L
3F*
3Z*
2A-2T

two 3-3/3-1-3 combos, 7 triples, repeats the the 3Z and 3F. She actually could do a 3F-3T instead on that second pass, but she would have to exchange the second flip for a 3S.
 
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MiRé

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Because there was no need for it and because she was injured, and three month short of practice, so why would she attempt something that would agravate her injury further, her health comes in first place, the axel can wait.

Three month short of practice isn't really an excuse since Yuna was out for 18 months but still managed to land 3lz+3toe
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Talking in terms of Yuna, would this rule inconvenience her if she hypothetically could do a 3Lo? i.e. someone with a legit. full set of triples (with the exception of the triple axel).

No. If Yu-na did all five triples she would be in business. The rule specifically puts a roadblock before the hypothetical skater who can do a 3Lz+3T, a 2A+3T, but not a 3Lo.

Conversely, the changes benefit the hypothetical skater who has a 3A, a 3A+2T, but no triple-triple and no 3Lz or 3S.

Mrs. P. said:
Here's (Gracie Gold's) layout this year.

3Z-3T
3F-1L-3S
3L
3F*
3Z*
2A-2T-2L*

What is her seventh jumping pass, a 2A?

This is a huge layout. On paper she should crush Ashley Wagner at U.S. Nationals. ;) The new rule about the half-loop sequencc allows a lot of cool stuff.

CoP rules question: Doesn't this layout contain two sequences with three jumps? Is that OK?

This also, however, shows how difficult it is to get any real advantage by doing triple-triples instead of the same jumps solo. If she did the relatively safe 3F+2T and solo 3S (replacing the last 2A), she would only lose a couple of points with a much easier program.
 
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Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
No. If Yu-na did all five triples she would be in business. The rule specifically puts a roadblock before the hypothetical skater who can do a 3Lz+3T, a 2A+3T, but not a 3Lo.

Conversely, the changes benefit the hypothetical skater who has a 3A, a 3A+2T, but no triple-triple and no 3Lz or 3S.



What is her seventh jumping pass, a 2A?

This is a huge layout. On paper she should crush Ashley Wagner at U.S. Nationals. ;) The new rule about the half-loop sequencc allows a lot of cool stuff.

CoP rules question: Doesn't this layout contain two sequences with three jumps? Is that OK?

This also, however, shows how difficult it is to get any real advantage by doing triple-triples instead of the same jumps solo. If she did the relatively safe 3F+2T and solo 3S (replacing the last 2A), she would only lose a couple of points with a much easier program.

Yes, it's a 2A, it's her third jumping pass, I believe. I will edit my post. And I think the last jumping pass is just a 2A-2T. My bad.
 
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