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Thread: US Men: Nationals and Beyond

  1. #46
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    That's a point I hadn't considered, SkateFan66. As the song says, perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

    My feeling is always that (1) if someone's not good enough to make the national roster, what does it matter if he gives it a try. (2) if someone is good enough, then he deserves the spot, and we could sure use a guy like that.

    Unless the federation arbitrarily puts one of the comeback guys on the national team (which would be dreadful and counterproductive to the federation's goals of, like, medaling at worlds), then presumably he gets there because he outskated other competitors. In which case, as I say, we could sure use a guy like that.

    I suspect, alas, it won't come to that. Neither Johnny nor Evan currently shows any evidence of being able to skate at that level. I believe the old phrase is "don't buy a pig in a poke." With both those men, their current skating abilities are in a lockbox that no one has yet opened in full view.
    Last edited by Olympia; 02-05-2013 at 09:27 PM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    That's a point I hadn't considered, SkateFan66. As the song says, perhaps, perhaps, perhaps.

    My feeling is always that (1) if someone's not good enough to make the national roster, what does it matter if he gives it a try. (2) if someone is good enough, then he deserves the spot, and we could sure use a guy like that.

    Unless the federation arbitrarily puts one of the comeback guys on the national team (which would be dreadful and counterproductive to the federation's goals of, like, medaling at worlds), then presumably he gets there because he outskated other competitors. In which case, as I say, we could sure use a guy like that.

    I suspect, alas, it won't come to that. Neither Johnny nor Evan currently shows any evidence of being able to skate at that level. I believe the old phrase is "don't buy a pig in a poke." With both those men, their current skating abilities are in a lockbox that no one has yet opened in full view.
    The USFSA will send the best of the best to Sochi. Past Olympians will not get a free pass.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    The USFSA will send the best of the best to Sochi. Past Olympians will not get a free pass.
    Which is as it should be. What sport gives anyone a bye to a championship?

  4. #49
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    I would just like to say I do not care WHO it is coming back, I want to see them EARN it. I don't want to see free passes to two grand prixs. I want to see them earn it.

    If a skater, any skater, wants to come back, then they can work on themselves in training, go through the procedures to go to Nationals, and then there earn a place at Championship events/grand prix. If their federation chooses to give them a spot at their grand prix that season, that's their decision. But they should not be submitted for assignment by other federations. That's something they should have to EARN.

    I saw Plushenko brought up earlier in this thread. Let's have a look at his comeback, shall we? In 2009 he signalled his intention to come back to the Russian Federation. He did NOT ask for any grand prix events; he was offered the COR host pick because, well, Plushenko. He accepted. He then went to Nationals to earn his place at Europeans and the Olympics. After that, due to a disagreement with his federation, he was suspended for a year. After that suspension, he did NOT ask for any grands prix, but instead went to Nationals and once again earned his spot at Europeans.

    That is hugely different to signing a piece of paper and being gift-wrapped two grand prix spots when you've done nothing to earn them or even shown any indication that you can be competitive internationally or even that you are serious about your comeback.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    I would just like to say I do not care WHO it is coming back, I want to see them EARN it. I don't want to see free passes to two grand prixs. I want to see them earn it.

    If a skater, any skater, wants to come back, then they can work on themselves in training, go through the procedures to go to Nationals, and then there earn a place at Championship events/grand prix. If their federation chooses to give them a spot at their grand prix that season, that's their decision. But they should not be submitted for assignment by other federations. That's something they should have to EARN.

    I saw Plushenko brought up earlier in this thread. Let's have a look at his comeback, shall we? In 2009 he signalled his intention to come back to the Russian Federation. He did NOT ask for any grand prix events; he was offered the COR host pick because, well, Plushenko. He accepted. He then went to Nationals to earn his place at Europeans and the Olympics. After that, due to a disagreement with his federation, he was suspended for a year. After that suspension, he did NOT ask for any grands prix, but instead went to Nationals and once again earned his spot at Europeans.

    That is hugely different to signing a piece of paper and being gift-wrapped two grand prix spots when you've done nothing to earn them or even shown any indication that you can be competitive internationally or even that you are serious about your comeback.
    The last I will say on this subject, per ISU rules, skaters who have had top finishes at the ISU World Championships EARN a right to use the comeback rule to get two GP assignments. (not all skaters who make a comeback have EARNED the right to use the comeback provision) This comeback rule only applies to the GP, and has no affect on a skater earning a spot for Europeans, 4CC, or the World Championships.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    Which is as it should be. What sport gives anyone a bye to a championship?
    Figure Skating. Weren't Michelle and Nancy and Angela given byes to a championship?

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    When Josh moves up to the senior level he could develop a fan base too, you know. Same for Max Aaron. They just haven't had the experience yet. I think they both already have a lot of fan girls based on their looks anyways.
    Just saying, but Jason already has a fan club, "The Brownies," who showed up in matching T Shirts at US Nats.

    Really, one of these returning champions is a no-brainer as a GP host pick for a non-US fed.

    1. People have heard of them, and it may boost the box office.

    2. They are unlikely to beat the local Fed's champions, which works nicely too.

    So as long at the ISU has rules that allow these guys to Earn the right to reincarnate, federations will pick them as a host pick.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    The animosity is probably a result of certain posters not wanting their favorite skaters to have to compete against Weir and/or Lysacek for an spot on the 2014 Olympic Team.
    Well......I guess if their favorite skaters are as good as certain posters think they are.....then it shouldn't matter who they compete against! Let the best man/men win!

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    Well......I guess if their favorite skaters are as good as certain posters think they are.....then it shouldn't matter who they compete against! Let the best man/men win!
    I agree. With all the talk about how great their favorite skaters are, and how bad all the other skaters are, then they should not be concerned. ;-)

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    The animosity is probably a result of certain posters not wanting their favorite skaters to have to compete against Weir and/or Lysacek for an spot on the 2014 Olympic Team.
    As if anyone is deluded enough to think Weir has a remote chance of the U.S Olympic team. That is as hilarious as discussing the chances of Evan winning a medal at the Sochi Olympics.

    As for the reference to Plushenkos comeback:

    1. Regardless of age, Plushenko is 10000000x more competitive still than Weir is at this point. He won Europeans last year keep in mind, while Weir isnt even good enough anymore to medal at B internationals. He also has more chance to be competitive than Lysacek, although both have very poor odds of being top 5 at the World level at this point.

    2. Plushenko and his comeback have received alot of negative opinions too. Has the person who referenced him not seen the threads about Pliushenko on this forum of late.

    3. Plushenko is stil the only decent Russian skater there is, so I am sure the Russians are thrilled to have him back, in any form.
    Last edited by pangtongfan; 02-06-2013 at 10:42 AM.

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