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Thread: US Men: Nationals and Beyond

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Yes the USFSA clearly is misguides in their priorities. To not given many of those guys any GP assignments and to give Johnny freaking Weir 2 grand prix assignments is unbelievable. They need to let go of the past and move forward if they are going to get anywhere in the next few years.
    USFSA didn't give Weir any Grand Prix assignments. The only GP assignments they have to give are to Skate America, and they didn't give him that.

    The other GP assignments are invitations from the respective host federations.

    If USFSA had refused to submit Weir's name to the Grand Prix pool, there is no guarantee that those other federations would have invited another American skater instead.

    So by allowing him to be invited, they were not preventing any other US skaters from being invited.

  2. #32
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    Well either way next year I predict to see Weir with 0 grand prix assignments. Lysacek I am not sure what to expect, but if he does get any I predict him to withdraw from them just like this year. Hopefully Aaron, Miner, Farris all get 2 assignments. Abbott will for sure be given 2 to appropriately bomb like usual.

  3. #33
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    ^^^^
    Johnny puts more butts in the seats than Josh Farris, even if he skates poorly

  4. #34
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    Other than in the U.S nobody gives a rats toot about either Weir or Farris at this point in time. So that doesnt even come into play. Nobody in France or China is buying their tickets based on whether either of those are there, but based on which Japanese men, whether Chan, or perhaps whether Plushenko in his latest bold comeback try or present, along with in Europe perhaps Joubert as he has a big following there, and the home country men per country.

  5. #35
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    I believe Weir does have a fan base in Russia.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    I believe Weir does have a fan base in Russia.
    And Japan. If Johnny was as irrelevant outside the U.S. as some of you are presuming, why is he still getting invited to skating shows?

  7. #37
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    Johnny has a very strong fanbase in Russia, Japan and Korea and probably elsewhere in Europe where many don't care how he dresses or what he does off the ice. And like Mskater93 said - he does put butts in the seats. And for that reason I think the USFSA was interested in him competing.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    The important thing for the U.S now is to have their middle aged and young guys who can all be around for 2018 start to establish themselves. Meaning nobody older than Miner and Rippon already are. The last thing they should do is even consider throwing an ounce of support to oldies like Lysacek and Abbott next year. Better to send a skater who is trying to establish himself for the 2015-2018 quad to possibly finish 7th or 8th, then send a skater who is retiring like Lysacek or Abbott to finish 9th or 10th. I dont think the U.S has any medal hopes whatsoever for Sochi no matter who makes the team, but they can start to set themselves up for post Sochi where there will surely be a ton of retirements.
    Agreed. I hope the USFSA will start grooming Farris, Johnson and Brown for post-Sochi dominance. Abbot is done and, like Lysacek and Weir, is simply too old and thus injury-prone, as we have seen.

  9. #39
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    I would think that a competition that included an Olympic Gold Medalist making a comeback would be an exciting public event. Neither Lysacek nor Plushenko will go without GP assignments if they're skating next year. Organizers must put butts in seats, and their participation would more probably provide more money via television contracts.

    I'd love to see more skating on television, and the GP Series during the lead-up to the Olympics is a good opportunity if properly managed... and promoting a rematch of the Olympic final just makes business sense. Now, at the end of the day, perhaps neither will be in the medal mix... but by then, the hard-core fans will have seen the GP Series, and the casual fan will have been exposed to new and exciting skaters. Who knows??? Skating's popularity could rise again.

    Johnny Weir is not a personal favorite of mine, but he has a worldwide fanbase. It wouldn't make much sense to exclude him.

    Now all of this is from a PR Perspective... I'm sure some of the lesser-known skaters would suffer from the "old guys" sucking up all the oxygen.

  10. #40
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    1. Evan Lysacek came back in the 11/12 season. He got TEB and Skate America. He was eligible for one spot based on his WR ranking (one season off doesn't drop you entirely due to the held-over scores, especially if you had a strong season like Lysacek did the Olympic season) and one as a host pick. He withdrew. He got one GP spot for the 12/13 season (this one) - a host pick from Skate America. Is he still eligible for return as a comeback skater (skaters that made top six in a previous Worlds/Olympics are comeback skaters) and get two spots

    2. Johnny Weir had his two slots (CoR and TEB) this year as a comeback skater (which he earned as a World Bronze Medalist, 2008 and/or Olympics top 6). He would only be eligible for one spot next year (host pick) as he's not high enough in the WR list otherwise, right (tied for 135th thanks to Finlandia)

    3. I give Weir monster credit for actually competing at Finlandia and CoR, frankly.

    4. While I definitely think that Lysacek would bring people to an event, I wonder if the long term health/popularity of the sport would be better served by showcasing the best of tomorrow (in general, I'd assert that host picks should be about that, to be honest - yesterday/today/tomorrow, and all that)

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    I will not believe for a second that Weir was actually injured; but he has only himself to blame for that since he has a past littered with such incidents

    Really? Really? Care to enumerate them?

    I guess I don't understand why there is such animosity toward Weir and Lysacek coming back and yet people are falling all over themselves wishing that Plushenko is successful in his comeback! Plushenko is older, has wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more physical problems, and it's not clear to me after all his surgeries how he can compete on the international level with success. Time will tell. I tend to have faith that the USFSA tries their best to field a team with the best possibilities and if that includes Weir and Lysacek - so be it! If it doesn't? So be that, too! If Jeremy had skated clean at Nationals this year this conversation would be totally different. I still tend to think that if he can lay down 2 good skates there are only a few men in the world that can beat him. I can't and won't try to predict what the US Men's team will do in Sochii because it's well over a year away. Anything can happen between now and then - anything! I will say that Keegan Messing has never impressed me with his skating and really hasn't done anything to warrant being in the mix. Don't give up on Adam Rippon!! He turned himself around this year. His freeskate was commendable. He screwed up in the short program or this conversation would also be different. Aaron is going to be handed his hat on a platter unless he improves dramatically in his presentation - dramatically! Brown has a chance if he can get his 3A and a quad. He's charismatic and the crowd loves him. He has the presentation skills. At the age of 18, just barely, it's not impossible for him to get those jumps this year. Farris is a wild card IMO. He had a great skate at Nationals. Was it luck or can he be consistent in the future. Dornbush is doomed to be an also-ran. He never quite seems to get it together. And I have no opinion on Miner!!! Maybe a good choreographer and some great music might help. He has the skills.
    You have faith in Rippon but not Dornbush, Farris, or Aaron? Seriously? If Max lands his stuff I expect him to do quite well at Worlds. Farris has been skating consistently well for the past two years, his meltdown at Nationals last season was more of the "odd performance out" than his good skate here, if you paid attention to JGP you'd know that, his scores at junior competitions have been very comparable to the international scores of Rippon, Miner, and Dornbush and it's good USFS finally recognized his ability and marked him fairly at Nationals this year. Dornbush is always rewarded with good scores when he skates well, both Nationally and internationally. Sure he's not the most consistent for the time being but he is definitely capable of landing a solid 3axels and 4toes which cannot be said of Rippon or Brown at this point. And Ross has a good choreographer and good music this season and it's made a word of difference. Honestly, I see Aaron, Farris, and Dornbush as our top 3 guys for the next quadrennial, along with maybe Ross if he continues and Jason if he can get his technical up and land it consistently. Chen and Zhou are good too but they won't be taken seriously in seniors until they go through puberty which will take a few years. I think maybe we have to just give some of these guys a chance. Max is an incredible technician and Ricky and Josh are two of the most complete skaters in terms of jumps, artistry, spins, presentation, etc. in the US men's field currently.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    ^^^^
    Johnny puts more butts in the seats than Josh Farris, even if he skates poorly
    When Josh moves up to the senior level he could develop a fan base too, you know. Same for Max Aaron. They just haven't had the experience yet. I think they both already have a lot of fan girls based on their looks anyways.

  13. #43
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    I think there is a world of difference between skating junior level and then moving up to senior. I do pay attention to JGP but I'm still not very high on Dornbush. And he hasn't been consistent so it's been hard for me to agree that he's a well-rounded skater. Maybe he'll grow into it. Maybe. I think Josh has a very real possibility of being significant in the coming years. He IS a well-rounded skater. I do not care for Max Aaron's style of skating and I truly believe his presentation scores are going to do him in on the international level! Just like I think if Elvis Stojko was skating right now his technical athleticism would not be enough to garner him the success he had under the 6.0 regime! Just my opinion.

    The reason I have not given up on Adam Rippon is because he is a very complete skater. I think this year marked a time for him when he had to either decide to keep skating in the blousey tops and to hackneyed and somewhat boring classical pieces or to break out and do something different. I could very well be wrong but I have as good a chance at being right as anybody.

    Time will tell.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    The reason I have not given up on Adam Rippon is because he is a very complete skater. I think this year marked a time for him when he had to either decide to keep skating in the blousey tops and to hackneyed and somewhat boring classical pieces or to break out and do something different. I could very well be wrong but I have as good a chance at being right as anybody.

    Time will tell.
    Good point about Adam. Last year he had Jeremy Abbot's coaches, Sato/Dunjgen, yes? He left them later in 2012 and what a difference! He's skating with more power and dynamism; his costumes are bolder (good-bye somber beige and grey draped chiffon blouse: hello sleek red and black costume with white lightning designs); his music and choreography are more exciting; and, perhaps most important of all, he's having fun out there. Even tho' he didn't medal at Nats this yr, he said after his LP that he'd never had so much fun skating a program.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by noskates View Post
    I guess I don't understand why there is such animosity toward Weir and Lysacek coming back and yet people are falling all over themselves wishing that Plushenko is successful in his comeback! Plushenko is older, has wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more physical problems, and it's not clear to me after all his surgeries how he can compete on the international level with success.
    The animosity is probably a result of certain posters not wanting their favorite skaters to have to compete against Weir and/or Lysacek for an spot on the 2014 Olympic Team.

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