I think Hanyu's personal investment in his movement is what gives power to his artistry. I just want him to skate as himself, whether it's softer or harder. There's nothing more jarring than seeing a skater trying to skate more traditionally masculine when they're not (like Adam Rippon's current LP). I would rather see someone skate honestly than manly (in many ways, "being a man" is mainly a cover for emotional attachment anyway).
Last edited by draqq; 12-17-2012 at 01:38 AM.
This topic can go so many ways and some of you have stated very interesting points of view. Many young male skaters struggle with programs early on. They don't want to be perceived as sissies so many will choose strong music a la Eldredge style and curtailed their movement to be stronger and sometimes purposely leave out moves that are considered to be feminine such as spirals or camel spins. It is not easy to be a male in a female dominated sport. We don't grow up with many male role models at least not many that are straight. Skating a program reveals a lot about a person and sometimes it is not the intended purpose.Originally Posted by draqq
When Hanyu skates and is putting these numbers together he may not realize that he is being extremely feminine and that may not be what he is trying to do. While he grew up with Dai as a role model. Dai does it in such a way that when I see him do it I don't think of male/female. I see a very involved individual with the music. When Dai was younger some of his moves were very feminine and although he still does some of them there is a certain male strength to it. I don't know if that came we age and/or more awareness of himself and what he wanted to put out there.
^ I always thought of a camel spin as a masculine move. Ladies should do a layback instead. A sit-spin is unisex, IMHO. (Sorry if that sounds sexist)
Here is Paul Wylie:
Camel/sit/upright spin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nLhA7CVIok#t=2m50s
A macho Ina Bauerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nLhA7CVIok#t=3m37s
Three Russian split jumpshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nLhA7CVIok#t=5m0s
When Yuzuru skates this kind of programs, he does have a soft, sort-of-balletic movement, particularly in his arms. But I often watch ballet and I don't think that kind of movements are something that belong to one gender in particular.
He is, though, a very emotional skater, has long limbs and a pretty face, is quite flexible and does moves that are more often seen in women's skating (layback ina bauer, biellmann spin), and wears unusual costumes. I think these things put together certainly help in giving the impression that he skates in a feminine way.
^ I always thought of a camel spin as a masculine move. Ladies should do a layback instead. A sit-spin is unisex, IMHO. (Sorry if that sounds sexist
Here is Paul Wylie:
Camel/sit/upright spin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nLhA7CVIok#t=2m50s
A macho Ina Bauer
Three Russian split jumps
Yuzuru is superb all around skater. I think it is his artistry that really made him stand out for me. Technically he is wonderful, but I think it is his emotion and the way he performs on ice is what made me to include, first, his SP and later his LP as my personal highlights of the current season.
I don't think that his interpretation is better than interpretation of Patrick and Daisuke, if we are fair to them, because they have more experience and they are great in it, but I do think that Yuzuru is very different and I like his particular style more than Patrick's and Daisuke's styles, and I also think that this can be same for many people. Some say that Yuzuru is not really mature enough to be as good as those, but I personally don't care much about this, for me maybe it is his emotions of a growing up man that make me sympathize more with him and make his performances so special.
I think his musicality is exceptional and right up there with any skater, but the all around artistry is still developing. When he gets into a program, you can tell that he's emotionally invested in it and totally living the music, but sometimes I get the impression that he doesn't always know how best to use his body and different body movements to express what he's feeling. At times you can see some arm gesturing and repetitive movements, and I think this happens when he feels a need to fill in the blanks within the choreography. Because he's so passionate and energetic, the overall performance can still be great, but its definitely something for him to work on. When he does get the choreography and the music and the emotion to come together, the end result is.
As an aside - did anyone else chuckle at him skating to Parisienne Walkways in that costume and after that EX?He's definitely versatile.
Last year Yzuzru became my favourite skater and even I was impressed with this switch of characters a lot. I definitely like the fact that he has such different SP and LP this year.As an aside - did anyone else chuckle at him skating to Parisienne Walkways in that costume and after that EX?
I think that he skates with a feminine touch - but I say that in a good way. The artistry in ladies' skating is of a higher level that that in men's. When I see Plushenko skate, for example, I see strength. Or even Patrick Chan and Javier Fernandez. But when Yuzuru skates to a program that he likes, his emotions just show (think Worlds 2012 FS, and NHK Ex). He has the strength of Plushenko and the artistry of Weir. I can't ask for anything more.
I just wish that Brian Orser would stop forcing him to be mature in time for Sochi. Part of Yuzuru's charm is his youth. He will mature eventually, but there's no need to rush that.
"Artistic" and "passionate" are different words with different meanings.
Yuzuru is for sure a very passionate skater far from being ready with his style and selfidentity.
Wait and see, he has a great potential to become an artistic skater later on.
My choices for artistic men skaters are:
1. John Curry.
2.Toller Cranston.
3.Alexei Jagudin.
4.Stephan Lambiel.
5. Daisuke Takahashi.
6.Patrick Chan.
7. Paul Wylie.
(not necessarily an order, because real artistry doesn't need to be placed or been put in any order, it is a special QUALITY).
Hanyu is just not there yet, but has a chance to reach this Class in the future.
Last edited by bigdeal; 01-28-2013 at 09:12 AM.
Unfortunately, no. He doesn't have the strength of Plu. Their powers and staminas are simply incomparable. And Hanyu issue became even more visible after he moved to Canada.
I agree with everything you said about his current coach policy.
Jeremy Abbott is very artistic too!
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