- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
She's one of those rare individuals who seem to get prettier with the passage of time...Prettykeys: How did you manage to find an even pretty avatar than your last one?
:
Kostner at Golden Spin of Zagreb (vids)
- Thread starter Icey
- Start date
:
I really liked the performance. The program is getting better. Also, I felt that she skated faster today and put more transitions in the program.
To be honest, the haters are so annoying, they NEVER give a break. I am impressed by how they always have something negative to say about Carolina. They promote the skaters that they like by being heavily negative and critical to Carolina.
To be honest, the haters are so annoying, they NEVER give a break. I am impressed by how they always have something negative to say about Carolina. They promote the skaters that they like by being heavily negative and critical to Carolina.
Agree. Especially if Kim nails her SP, Carolina will need a lot of luck to beat Yuna for the title.
Anyway, assuming all girls do their planned layout perfectly and Asada has no 3A.
After the SP,
1. Kim. Should have the highest TES. TR should also be the highest. SS/CH/IN/PE should be behind Kostner.
2. Kostner. Second highest TES due to the strength of her jumps and her steps. Should have highest PCS.
3. Asada. Should get high enough TES to be within striking distance. Lowest PCS of the 3, except TR, which should be higher than Kostner.
LP.
If all 3 skate clean 6 triples LP, same order as the short program. Whoever skates a clean LP and the other two make mistake, that girl will win.
I don't think Kim or Asada are sitting there, thinking they can just show up and get gold like V/T. They will need to be perfect if Kostner is skating like this. If all 3 girls are clean, this might be the best World ever.
None of the Russian girls will come close. Poor Akiko, will not come close to medal. And someone like Ashley shouldn't be near the podium anyway.
Someone like Patrick Chan, Dai, D/W, V/M, and even P/B regularly get 9+ in PCS, especially for Patrick Chan in SS/CH/IN. Then Kostner should always get 9+ for her CH/IN/SS. There's no reason why she only sometimes crack 8 for SS/CH/IN. Lori gives Kostner better programs than she does to Patrick, and she interprets the music better than he does, too. Do the dancers have better skill, better programs than Kostner to warrant their 9+ components? I don't think so.
Last edited:
To be honest... For me, talking about PC's...
Skating Skills: Carolina > Yuna > Asada
Transitions: Yuna > Asada > Carolina
Choreography: Carolina > Yuna > Asada
Interpretation: Carolina > Asada > Yuna
Performance/Execution is difficult to say, since it will depend on the performance of each one, but, considering that the three skate clean, I think the judges are gonna to put Yuna > Asada > Carolina
Talking about TES. If Carolina land the seven triples, she will be first in the TES. But, Kim also will be very close, because Kim can recieve very high GOEs for her elements (as Carolina and Mao can get too). Carolina gets huge GOE for jumps and steps and Asada recieves massive GOE for spins, steps and spirals.
Talking about jumps overrall is very complicated, because there are five types of jumps. I would rank the three, in terms of jumps:
Lutz: Yuna > Carolina > Asada (Since Asada does not have a proper Lutz)
Flip: Carolina > Yuna > Asada
Loop: Carolina > Asada > Yuna (Kim has no Loop)
Salchow: Carolina > Yuna > Asada
Toeloop: Carolina > Yuna > Asada
Axel: Yuna > Asada > Carolina
In terms of spins, Asada has slightly better spins than Yuna and both of them spin better than Carolina. I would rank Asada > Kim > Carolina
In terms of steps, Carolina > Asada > Kim.
Skating Skills: Carolina > Yuna > Asada
Transitions: Yuna > Asada > Carolina
Choreography: Carolina > Yuna > Asada
Interpretation: Carolina > Asada > Yuna
Performance/Execution is difficult to say, since it will depend on the performance of each one, but, considering that the three skate clean, I think the judges are gonna to put Yuna > Asada > Carolina
Talking about TES. If Carolina land the seven triples, she will be first in the TES. But, Kim also will be very close, because Kim can recieve very high GOEs for her elements (as Carolina and Mao can get too). Carolina gets huge GOE for jumps and steps and Asada recieves massive GOE for spins, steps and spirals.
Talking about jumps overrall is very complicated, because there are five types of jumps. I would rank the three, in terms of jumps:
Lutz: Yuna > Carolina > Asada (Since Asada does not have a proper Lutz)
Flip: Carolina > Yuna > Asada
Loop: Carolina > Asada > Yuna (Kim has no Loop)
Salchow: Carolina > Yuna > Asada
Toeloop: Carolina > Yuna > Asada
Axel: Yuna > Asada > Carolina
In terms of spins, Asada has slightly better spins than Yuna and both of them spin better than Carolina. I would rank Asada > Kim > Carolina
In terms of steps, Carolina > Asada > Kim.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2012
Agreed.
However on the axel I would have Mao first, Carolina second, Yu Na third. If these are the top 3 at worlds it would be just like 2008 again.
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2011
When asked about Yuna, Carolina said "She is so good that I don't even consider her as a rival" I think we will discover just at Worlds in case they both skate at their fullest potential
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
mateus, I agree with most of your post #64. Some of the things I'd change, though...
TES: If Carolina lands 7 triples, they will not put 6-triple YuNa or Mao above her. And really, it would be wrong to.
2Axel: All about the same
On Choreo and Interpretation, I'd say they might be ranked similarly, considering both SP's and LP's. Same with P/E if they all skate cleanly. So Caro = Mao = YuNa
TES: If Carolina lands 7 triples, they will not put 6-triple YuNa or Mao above her. And really, it would be wrong to.
Flip: Caro = YuNa > Mao
2Axel: All about the same
Steps: Caro = Mao > YuNa (YuNa can be a little stiff sometimes in her steps, not quite as fluid as the other two even if hers are still very good.)
Agree with you on all points except P/E. I feel Caro > Yuna > Asada if they all skate clean. Caro has more interesting programs, and her LP ends with a spectacular steps follow by a 3Sal. That is performance. She should get the highest P/E.
Mao is usually stoic, but her Swan LP should change some of that. I think Yuna > Mao in the SP, but Mao > Yuna in the LP for P/E.
Agree, if Caro has 7 triples, and other girls have 6, she should win.
Agree but the Loop and Axel.
Mao's loop at her best should be > Carolina.
Mao's 2A should be better than Yuna > Carolina. Only because Caro rarely puts any steps in front of her 2A. As for the jump itself and the exit, she's equally good compare to the other two.
Agree. Asada sometimes come close, but her steps generally is a level below. Asada never got a level 4 when it was harder to get a level 4.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
I don't know about that. I think the best Carolina 3Lo was one of the best I'd seen from a lady, ever. It was spectacularly high. I can't look for the performance/clip right now, but if no one does it later tonight I will dig it up and post it.
Here's one of Mao's best
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9921LChDlBc#t=97s
Here are some of Caro's best. Good, clean, but her position were a bit tilted. That's my reason for picking Mao's over Caro's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9921LChDlBc#t=97s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VjBtanpTYTY#t=71s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IutFxNBUujU&feature=player_detailpage#t=92s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9921LChDlBc#t=97s
Here are some of Caro's best. Good, clean, but her position were a bit tilted. That's my reason for picking Mao's over Caro's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9921LChDlBc#t=97s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VjBtanpTYTY#t=71s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IutFxNBUujU&feature=player_detailpage#t=92s
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
No need to skate then... or see how they actually do.
When is the last time Carolina did 7 triples? I though Yuna's 3Flip especially her 3F3T is magnificent (Great height, distance, flow and power) so is her 2A+3T, certainly one of the best in the biz.
I disagree with interpretation and performance/execution and would have placed Yuna first, since when I have always felt it is Yuna out of the three who has consistently displayed best versatility, diversity, emotional investment and musical range to extrapolate essences of the music the best. She is also way more expressive with her entire body than the other two, including reflecting fairly accurately varied pace of the music, the highs and the lows as appropriate. While Carol has learned to control her speed and pacing in her skate, it does improve her musicality but she has only been doing this recently and still lack in range. Mao could benefit from listen to the music a bit more and do some research into the rich history and background of her programs, the composer, the meaning of her piece to show respect to the material instead of just using it as pleasant background music to her light happy fun version of what ever the music is, which she has seems to have pigeonholed herself into.
Choreography wise, I found Kostner's and Mao's LP tends to be half empty (I blame this on Lori though, who is sure COP smart, but sacrifice alot of the artistry she could have included), only the latter part focuses almost entirely on step sequences for a climatic finish hoping judges will forget about the void of the rest of the program and finish on a high (Miki Ando/Morozov effect). It ends up with jarring piece of work where the skaters forget to emote half of the time with only the slightest music references while visibly focuses on getting the jumps out of the way (usually take a while to set up) for all that COP number crunching, before settle down and do the step sequences and a big wow finish.
Kostner is a classical skater within limited range, she mesh it with it well, but there's virtually nothing unique about her Bolero that stand out from her other European classic pieces. The most interesting part of her choreography consist of near stationary poses, similar to her Shostakovitch program last year with the same hip wiggling choreography stare into the crowd as she is some flirtatious Goddess they should be in complete awe which I suppose they want to make it into a Carolina trademark a la Witt. But it ends up just feel like she has become a parody of herself, where's the substance, purpose or meaning in her performance, and how is that different from a well oiled performed routine. Was her interpretation anything to do with the music was written about? The historical setting? Composer's intention? What's the concept can you identify behind the program? If you turn the music off and show it to another person, can they understand what she is trying to express and guess the music, can they clap to the beat?
Don't get me wrong, she is a very high quality skater, undoubtedly one of the best, but watching her skating is sometimes like drinking water, not the tap kind obviously. But instead of gurgled on it and trying to swallow because you tell yourself is good for you, I can now actually seep it quietly, pleasantly with the 6 triples. But I still prefer variety of beverages, hot and cold, sometimes a finewine of different vintages, different grapes from different vineyard, a little cocktail here and there for variety, and on occasion sparkling soda pop with lots of ice and twist of lemon every now and again through out the season.. I get that more often with Yuna than with the 2 others, for that I am grateful.
Last edited:
No need to skate then... or see how they actually do.
When is the last time Carolina did 7 triples? I though Yuna's 3Flip especially her 3F3T is magnificent (Great height, distance, flow and power) so is her 2A+3T, certainly one of the best in the biz.
I disagree with interpretation and performance/execution and would have placed Yuna first, since when I have always felt it is Yuna out of the three who has consistently displayed best versatility, diversity, emotional investment and musical range to extrapolate essences of the music the best. She is also way more expressive with her entire body than the other two, including reflecting fairly accurately varied pace of the music, the highs and the lows as appropriate. While Carol has learned to control her speed and pacing in her skate, it does improve her musicality but she has only been doing this recently and still lack in range. Mao could benefit from listen to the music a bit more and do some research into the rich history and background of her programs, the composer, the meaning of her piece to show respect to the material instead of just using it as pleasant background music to her light happy fun version of what ever the music is, which she has seems to have pigeonholed herself into.
Choreography wise, I found Kostner's and Mao's LP tends to be half empty (I blame this on Lori though, who is sure COP smart, but sacrifice alot of the artistry she could have included), only the latter part focuses almost entirely on step sequences for a climatic finish hoping judges will forget about the void of the rest of the program and finish on a high (Miki Ando/Morozov effect). It ends up with jarring piece of work where the skaters forget to emote half of the time with only the slightest music references while visibly focuses on getting the jumps out of the way (usually take a while to set up) for all that COP number crunching, before settle down and do the step sequences and a big wow finish.
Kostner is a classical skater within limited range, she mesh it with it well, but there's virtually nothing unique about her Bolero that stand out from her other European classic pieces. The most interesting part of her choreography consist of near stationary poses, similar to her Shostakovitch program last year with the same hip wiggling choreography stare into the crowd as she is some flirtatious Goddess they should be in complete awe which I suppose they want to make it into a Carolina trademark a la Witt. But it ends up just feel like she has become a parody of herself, where's the substance, purpose or meaning in her performance, and how is that different from a well oiled performed routine. Was her interpretation anything to do with the music was written about? The historical setting? Composer's intention? What's the concept can you identify behind the program? If you turn the music off and show it to another person, can they understand what she is trying to express and guess the music, can they clap to the beat?
Don't get me wrong, she is a very high quality skater, undoubtedly one of the best, but watching her skating is sometimes like drinking water, not the tap kind obviously. But instead of gurgled on it and trying to swallow because you tell yourself is good for you, I can now actually seep it quietly, pleasantly with the 6 triples. But I still prefer variety of beverages, hot and cold, sometimes a finewine of different vintages, different grapes from different vineyard, a little cocktail here and there for variety, and on occasion sparkling soda pop with lots of ice and twist of lemon every now and again through out the season.. I get that more often with Yuna than with the 2 others, for that I am grateful.
Mao, Yuna and Carolina deserve to be the top 3 and they all have totally different unique qualitites. In the end it's a matter of taste.
Aww.. I like this thread! 
For me,
PCS
Skating Skills: Caro > Yuna > Mao
Transitions: Yuna > Mao= Caro
Choreography: Yuna > Caro > Mao
Interpretation: Yuna > Caro > Mao
Performance/Execution Yuna > Mao >= Caro
(CH, IE, PE are very subjective
)
TES
-Jumps
Lutz: Yuna > Caro > Mao
Flip: Yuna = Caro > Mao
Loop: Caro > Mao > Yuna
Salchow: Caro > Yuna > Mao
Toeloop: Yuna = Caro > Mao (Yuna doesn't do solo 3T, it is difficult to compare)
Axel: Yuna > Mao > Caro (Yuna often puts some transitions-ina, eagle, spirals- into axel, the height and distance is really great. Mao has great axel, but more pre-rotation than Yuna)
-Spins : Mao >= Yuna > Caro (Mao's positions are gorgeous, but Yuna has more speed than Mao except bielman)
-Steps : Caro = Mao > Yuna (Caro and Mao have equally great steps, but I prefer Caro)
For me,
PCS
Skating Skills: Caro > Yuna > Mao
Transitions: Yuna > Mao= Caro
Choreography: Yuna > Caro > Mao
Interpretation: Yuna > Caro > Mao
Performance/Execution Yuna > Mao >= Caro
(CH, IE, PE are very subjective
)TES
-Jumps
Lutz: Yuna > Caro > Mao
Flip: Yuna = Caro > Mao
Loop: Caro > Mao > Yuna
Salchow: Caro > Yuna > Mao
Toeloop: Yuna = Caro > Mao (Yuna doesn't do solo 3T, it is difficult to compare)
Axel: Yuna > Mao > Caro (Yuna often puts some transitions-ina, eagle, spirals- into axel, the height and distance is really great. Mao has great axel, but more pre-rotation than Yuna)
-Spins : Mao >= Yuna > Caro (Mao's positions are gorgeous, but Yuna has more speed than Mao except bielman)
-Steps : Caro = Mao > Yuna (Caro and Mao have equally great steps, but I prefer Caro)
I have to agree with this.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2009
If Caro skates like this again in Canada, both Mao and Yuna will need to have the skate of their life to beat her. She's the world champion with world champion bonus and she needs to get bigger bonus for her mastering of all type of triples.
I see some of Yuna fans aren't so happy.
Heh. I'm very happy that CaroK skated like a World Champ here.
But I haven't seen CaroK bring her A-game to big comps and do everything perfectly recently.
Also you may be right CaroK has the WC bonus, but Yuna is the reigning Olympic Champion and still the holder of the WR scores in SP, LP and combined from Vancouver. And Mao, despite her recent struggles, is still the Olympic Silver Medalist and the only woman to land three 3As in one comp (in Vancouver). And both Yuna and Mao have won WC titles before, and it's not like their Olympic medals were some fluke.
So I don't think that CaroK's locked in for another WC title.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
Well...they sure scored her like a 5 x world champions, protocols forwarded from Chinese skating boards.
http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy176/os168_photo/CarolinaKostner_zps4a56cb1e.jpg
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
- Country
-
+GOE across the board on a double-footed Triple Lutz. LOL (sigh). It was a good performance but should have been scored at least 15 points lower.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
I don't know about Bolero but last year, when Lori choreographed her Mozart FS, Caro read Mozart's biography and studied the piece she was going to skate to, and she said in multiple Italian interviews that she felt she was skating to the "Lady Gaga of those years" and that "I love skating to Mozart because I know very well the background of this piece", so maybe it has been the same this year...
I agree that she's sometimes skating to the same classical kind of music, but so is Yu-Na: you will never see Yu-Na/Caro skating to "I got rythm" like Mao or to a funny/light program, because it just isn't their style. Caro is always soft, elegant and classic, Yu-Na is always dramatic and energetic (excluding the early years, yes, but in those years her artistic abilities were not "her style" yet), Mao is really the only one who has experimented a variety in her style.
And, for me, the ranking is:
SS Caro>Yu-Na>Mao
TR Yu-Na>Mao>Caro
PE Caro>Yu-Na=Mao
CH Caro>Mao>Yu-Na
IN Yu-Na>Caro>Mao
For the technical side, Caro has the best technique in all the jumps, except the lutz (which is obviously Yu-Na's), but don't forget that she is the only one in the world, at the moment, who is able to land seven clean triples among the top Senior Ladies (all the others have UR, "e" problems or they simply don't have one triple, like Yu-Na), she doesn't always have beautiful transitions before them but their height and quality is comparable just to Yu-Na's.
So, for me the battle is Yu-Na vs Caro if they skate clean.
(For the mods, can you create another thread for this interesting discussion?)
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2011
Yuna skated to a funny, light yet matured music, All of Me.
As others already mentioned earlier in this thread, it is very clear that Lori does not necessarily bring originaloty nor creativity for Caro since the choreos for Mozart LP and this Bolero LP take almost exactly same variation of well-known contemporary dance routines or ballet routines.
As others already mentioned earlier in this thread, it is very clear that Lori does not necessarily bring originaloty nor creativity for Caro since the choreos for Mozart LP and this Bolero LP take almost exactly same variation of well-known contemporary dance routines or ballet routines.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
It was an EX, Caro also skate to Mein Herr or Heavy Cross that were funny/light! Yes, I agree that her choreography are pretty the same in some parts, but every choreographer has his/her own style, so (is she wants a different choreography style) she would have to change it...
I thought Yuna's Die Fledermaus was light and funny. I admit that it was not a good choice for her, but at least she tried it
I don't know why you excluded early years, but her Lark Ascending was lyrical and soft style, it was perfectly suited her. Beautiful choreography, interesting and difficult transitions..., It's one of her best programs, IMO.
Is her Gershwin program energetic and dramatic? I thought it was elegant, classic, and playful at the same time.
Her Arirang and Les Mis consists of various music cut - dynamic, energetic, but lyrical and soft at the same time. Yuna rarely uses monotonous, repetitive music.
I don't know why you didn't include Liza (perhaps you thought she's not a top senior skater?), but she is capable of landing seven clean triples. Actually she has more difficult content than Caro - 3Lz-3T and another 3Lz, some difficult jumps in second half of the program, transitions and flow in and out of the jumps, more consistency than Caro. She's a great jumper, IMO.
Anyway, Caro has indeed great technique! ( her 3S, 3Lo, and 3F are fantastic!) However, compared to Yuna, she doesn't have transitions, flow, and speed in and out of the jumps.
Similar threads
