Kostner at Golden Spin of Zagreb (vids) | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Kostner at Golden Spin of Zagreb (vids)

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
And so it is with real regret that I must say that I strongly dislike the Bolero LP.

It's just not possible to skate to Bolero. (Torvill and Dean did what little could be done with it. ;) )

The work was purportedly inspired by a trip that Ravel took to a factory with his dad, an engineer. Noise repeated 18 times exactly the same, with no development or counterpoint, getting louder and louder. Ravel's own staging of the work was an open air scene with a factory in the background. Ravel himself described the piece as "orchestral tissue without music." Modern day psychiatric researchers point to the repetitive droning as evidence of the onset of Alzheimer's.

(But other than that, Mathman, how did you like the concert? :) )
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Thank you. Having seen the Italian Nats version, I can now say that I like it more than the LP (it helps that it's not Bolero) but compared to last year... no. I can't think of another lady who could have pulled off the Shostakovich SP, while this one feels a lot more generic. I know Carolina is not a recycler of programs, but in this case I would love to see the return of some of her past programs, which seemed more uniquely her.

Stylistic preference aside, I don't see how this LP is so much worse than last year's LP content and inbetween-wise. I LOVED her Mozart LP, but it's not like it had that many inbetweens.
There's a difference between not cluttered and empty. I didn't find the Mozart program empty, and creatively it was by far the more interesting effort.

I thought Stolbova/Klimov had a pretty fantastic interpretation of it.
I don't like them. Something about her rubs me the wrong way.

BTW, see my response to Flattfan above; do you remember our discussion of style and range? I've figured it out. Kostner has both, but her style is better suited to certain parts of her range.
 

Pepe Nero

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
It's just not possible to skate to Bolero. (Torvill and Dean did what little could be done with it. ;) )

The work was purportedly inspired by a trip that Ravel took to a factory with his dad, an engineer. Noise repeated 18 times exactly the same, with no development or counterpoint, getting louder and louder. Ravel's own staging of the work was an open air scene with a factory in the background. Ravel himself described the piece as "orchestral tissue without music." Modern day psychiatric researchers point to the repetitive droning as evidence of the onset of Alzheimer's.

Maybe that explains it.

I like Bolero as a piece of skating music, but my complaint about CK's FS is the same as what I don't like about lots of women's (and equally men's) free skates lately: waiting till all (or all but one) of the jumps are out of the way to begin performing. Skating like a zombie through 80% of the program and then being "emotional" on the last bit (to, I suppose, leave the judges with some lasting impression). CK did that here. She can improve, for sure. But her FS at this event was worthy of Christina Gao or Mirai Nagasu.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Still...the music is so unrelenting -- no thematic development, no change of rhythm or tempo, little opportunity for choreographic originality.

That's what everyone told Torvill and Dean, but somehow they made it work . . .
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
If Caro skates like this again in Canada, both Mao and Yuna will need to have the skate of their life to beat her. She's the world champion with world champion bonus and she needs to get bigger bonus for her mastering of all type of triples.

I see some of Yuna fans aren't so happy. :).
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Watching Bolero again, she reminds me of Katarina Witt. All those posings, all those limbs. This is probably the strongest long program since Yuna's LP in Vancouver.
She didn't make Bolero her own, but she definitely provided a good alternative to T&D's.

I think had she done Bolero before T&D, this would be revered just as highly.
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
If Caro skates like this again in Canada, both Mao and Yuna will need to have the skate of their life to beat her. She's the world champion with world champion bonus and she needs to get bigger bonus for her mastering of all type of triples.

I see some of Yuna fans aren't so happy. :).

LOL. No they don't need the skate of their life to beat that. CaroK's rep is weaker than the two. She may be reigning WC, but both Mao and Yuna have more and bigger medal haul behind them. Yuna in particular can afford mistakes in the free as long as her SP is clean.

The only time Carolina has managed to hold it together at big international competitions was with watered-down content and with practically no competition to put pressure on her. She didn't have Mao (in decent shape at least), Miki or Yuna to contend with last year when Worlds was in Europe. If she performs like this at Worlds in Canada it will be rather unprecedented.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
LOL. No they don't need the skate of their life to beat that. CaroK's rep is weaker than the two. She may be reigning WC, but both Mao and Yuna have more and bigger medal haul behind them. Yuna in particular can afford mistakes in the free as long as her SP is clean.

The only time Carolina has managed to hold it together at big international competitions was with watered-down content and with practically no competition to put pressure on her. She didn't have Mao (in decent shape at least), Miki or Yuna to contend with last year when Worlds was in Europe. If she performs like this at Worlds in Canada it will be rather unprecedented.

ok, girl. if you think yuna can pop a jump and run away with the title, pass some of that confidence to yuna. she'll need a lot of that.

mao hasn't done anything in many years that can top this program.
yuna has done it once at the vancouver olympics.

if both skate like they did past vancouver, can't see a single time they could beat kostner. they will need a skate of their life if kostner is clean.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003

No! It wasn't boring at all. That was the amazing part about it. She held our attention from beginning to end.

That's what everyone told Torvill and Dean, but somehow they made it work . . .

Somehow. :yes: Or is it the snowball effect. One person says, what a great performance, then the next person has to say, "yes the emperor's new suit is wonderful" so he won't look like a Philistine. ;)
 

OS

Sedated by Modonium
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
If Caro skates like this again in Canada, both Mao and Yuna will need to have the skate of their life to beat her. She's the world champion with world champion bonus and she needs to get bigger bonus for her mastering of all type of triples.

I see some of Yuna fans aren't so happy. :).

LOL wow you have Xray vision? Amazing!
Okay what am I wearing?
What kind of face am I making at you now? ;)

Carolina did well today, congratulations! *respect* If she had skated like that all last year, nobody would have said anything!

I do like this Yuna effect though... Push others to go for challenging content again and to do that at home probably means more to her than any other competitions.

Bring them on I say, bring the all.... The ladies competition just got more interesting :)
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
LOL wow you have Xray vision? Amazing!
Okay what am I wearing?
What kind of face am I making at you now? ;)

Carolina did well today, congratulations! *respect* If she had skated like that all last year, nobody would have said anything!

I do like this Yuna effect though... Push others to go for challenging content again and to do that at home probably means more to her than any other competitions.

Bring them on I say, bring the all.... The ladies competition just got more interesting :)

FlattFan was probably referring to me in that post, since I had just commented earlier about how I found Carolina's program to be boring. Then somehow he/she interpreted that as a Yuna fan being unhappy about her clean performance. :rolleye:

Personally, I'm quite happy Carolina will bring her A-game to Worlds, along with Mao and the rest. If Yuna wins against such a competitive field, then all the better. It will be as satisfying as her Vancouver Olympic victory, unlike Carolina's default World title. :p
 

icedinn

wishing ksenia/kirill happiness 4ever
On the Ice
Joined
Dec 5, 2012
I agree with you FlattFan!
And I hope Carolina does well at Euros and Worlds despite the negativity. It wont be easy but I have faith in her.
 

prettykeys

Medalist
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
...with real regret that I must say that I strongly dislike the Bolero LP. Leaving aside the question of whether it is ever a good idea to skate to music as iconoic as Bolero, I just don't think this is a good program, or one that does justice to Kostner's skills and strengths as a performer.
I agree. And I even dislike the iconic Bolero performance, anyway (T&D's). This is not a knock on Carolina Kostner as a skater, because she is one of the most well-rounded lady skaters currently out there, and almost everything about her abilities is high-quality.

It's just not possible to skate to Bolero. (Torvill and Dean did what little could be done with it. ;) )
This is exactly it. Maybe a stately single male figure skater could do an OK performance to it (preferably a SP rather than LP), but I don't think it's possible to skate to Bolero and have, at least me, enjoy it.

That's nice!
 

Krislite

Medalist
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
ok, girl. if you think yuna can pop a jump and run away with the title, pass some of that confidence to yuna. she'll need a lot of that.

[...]

A title isn't won on the strength of a long program alone. In fact, I'd argue titles these days are more dependent on performance in the short program than ever. If Carolina does 3T+2T and a 3Lo in the SP like she did at this national competition, she'll be lucky to beat Yuna with this kind of performance.
 
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