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Thread: 2013 Japanese Nationals Men

  1. #256
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    Fuji TV is unbearable. With their loads of commercials, fluff and other nonsense, they must be thinking that their TV audience are not fs fans who want to watch as many skaters as possible, but some bunch of boring cows who cares only about household products, greasy food and other crap, while fs comes just "in package". Even Asahi (GPF) was slightly less annoying. TV Tokyo- almost elegant . JSport is probably the only one who know what the word "sport" stands for.

    They didn't show Steph in Gala, who judging by the photos was skating Ritz (not enough tv place with 2 skaters in 20 minutes coverage ). Mao was charming and very positive, skated clean and inspired the audience. I am specially grateful when girls skate smth. different than ice princess stuff. For the encore she skated the last part of her current SP and was on fire. Yuzu skated his EX in that shichi-go-san girlish kimono, was singing together with the music and the singer (live band), had some sloppy landing on the last jump. In general I think he feels much better in this EX than in any other of his current progs. Maybe that's why he chose R&J final part for the encore. What a huge and pleasant surprise it was! The old guy showed up with all it energy and charisma, even the hunchback on his sitspin somehow almost disappeared. Why Abe could do that? Still when he finished he looked very pale and wet. Mura did very well in his "Talking to the Moon", did what he wanted including his fantastic 3A. Dai skated Tango with live band. He is probably using a new hair product now. That gorgeous brunette in the argentinianish costume was too seducingly good . He had a small step-out on 3A and it always amuzes me how upset he feels when he is not perfect in galas, even more upset than in competitions. That's why the audience worships him that much. For the encore he skated Mambo which was a kind of surprise considering that normally he skated the last part of his SP this season. But Mambo is sooooo popular among the audience in galas that it probably was some kind of request from the people of frozen Sapporo who supported him so faithfully . How could he refuse. Kanako and Akiko skated their EXs, seems they were like clean, but I didn't really follow them. Sometimes it got too difficult to bear Fluff TV without knowing when the next skater comes.
    Dai's EX: www.youtube.com/watch?v=KURspQLLvYE

  2. #257
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    thank you sooo much for the report!!! I hope to see all japanese heroes soon! I can't believe R&J is back ...what a nostalgia!!

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Takahashi definitely won this event from my perspective. He vastly outskated Hanyu in the LP and made just a small mistake in the SP. I don't think his SP Quad deserved that < call and Hanyu was gifted in the LP both on PCS and GOE (especially for those shaky quads, which should have been -2 on the first and -3 on the second).


    And what about Hanyu's 3A+3T? Was his 3T fully rotated? And 2.20 GOE for that? I know his entry is crazy, and his Axel usually is so powerful, but this time it wasn't.

  4. #259
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    I wonder if last year there was all this fuss here about Daisuke winning Nationals over Kozuka after he totally bombed in the free skate. Probably not.
    Li'Kitsu here was the only one who dared to say that maybe, just maybe, Daisuke getting over 9 in transitions in the free skate when he doesn't have any is too much. I might add that he regularly gets way more than Kozuka in skating skills when he doesn't deserve it, just like Hanyu doesn't; but if it's Hanyu it's an insult to Kozuka, if it's Daisuke it's okay and nobody ever brings it up. He gets an underrotation call in the free, and it's unfair because the judges clearly did it to make him lose: well, if he'd gotten all level fours in the spins and steps he would have won regardless. There's a clear disparity of treatment here, IMO. Just because he has many fans and he's loved by many (rightly so), it doesn't mean that he doesn't have faults or that he doesn't get overscored at times, like all skaters do.
    With that said, I think people tend to watch skating too much from a fan's perspective and forget that this is a sport, and that in terms of scoring components = tech, as in, they have the same importance. Daisuke's performances are great, probably even the best right now in the men's category in terms of artistry, but he has technical shortcomings: in the same way, Hanyu has artistic shortcomings due to his age and the fact that he's not mature and polished yet, but has outstanding technique. Is it so hard to accept that maybe he's as much of a talent technically, as Daisuke is artistically? And that these two things may put them on the same level when it comes to scoring?

  5. #260
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    Wow! EX with live music is wonderful!
    I looooove this Yuzuru's number, whish he'd skated it all year. He's soooo beautiful when he's 100% into music
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFKe8aliMmo
    Dai's amazing as always!

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by let’s talk View Post
    It's doesn't make sense to compare Nationals to international competitions and we all know why. The only more or less right way to compare the score at Nationals is to compare it to the rival's. And here the one who got generously overscored with all home advantge was Yuzu, while Dai got none, and he actually was judged way strcicter than even at international events (ur, sq level, etc.).
    I don’t think the Japanese domestic judges were harsher to Takahashi since Takahashi got UR calls at all international events this season, especially his quads have been called UR a lot. At CoC he got 4T < in SP, 4T <<, 4T <, and 3Lo < in LP. At NHK he got 4T < in LP. At GPF he got 3T < in LP. If Takahashi’s 4T has been called < and even << four times in recent international events, then the calls at Japanese Nationals were not strict at all.

    Same for Takahashi’s step sequence level, his SP StSeq got level 3s at CoC, GPF, and Nationals – 3 times out of 4 events. His LP StSeq got level 3s at NHK, GPF, and Nationals – 3 times out of 4 events. The international judges and domestic judges score him in the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    For FS, Imo Dai's probably Maxed 95% tech and 105% artistry potential of his program in showing that he can overcome a bad program, mediocre choreography and still make something superb. The achievement in itself spectacular and can not be measured by COP.
    Takahashi really skated very well in the LP. The performance itself was good because he was almost clean and he tried hard to perform. He deserved a high P/E score for that. But the choreography is still generic without many transitions. If the choreography is that generic to start with, then the skater needs more effort to pull it off, which is why at earlier competitions many people found this program not as good as his other programs. This time Takahashi skated almost 100% good and finally made it work, but with a better progrm he may only need 80%.

    I think Takahashi will get better programs for the Olympic season, and he deserves better programs than this. His exhibition program choreographed by Miyamoto was way better than this. Overall, I think Takahashi is getting his jumps back and will be a gold medal contender at Worlds.

    Quote Originally Posted by let’s talk View Post
    Hanyu wasn't just slow. He looked like a sick yellowish kid who lost his speed before he started.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
    I think your point about speed is an important one. A lot of people criticize Hanyu for losing speed during his FS, and that is valid, but one also has to recognize how fast he is to begin with. He flies across the ice during his SP and the first part of his FS.
    I don’t know how someone would think “Hanyu wasn't just slow. He looked like a sick yellowish kid who lost his speed before he started.” I compared the beginnings of Yuzru and Takahashi’s programs. After watching the first minute of Takahashi’s program Yuzru seemed so much faster in the first minute, like he was flying. If you think Yuzru lost his speed before he started, then Takahashi left his speed at home. Then during the last minute Yuzru slowed down and I agree he looked so sick and fragile, but still he maintained the same speed as Takahashi in the last ChSt.

    I agree with Riemann that Yuzru did lose speed in the last minute of LP, but that was because he had more speed to start with, which made his slowing down more visible. Takahashi, Kozuka, Mura, Oda, and many other skaters did not even start with Yuzru’s speed.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Takahashi definitely won this event from my perspective. He vastly outskated Hanyu in the LP and made just a small mistake in the SP. I don't think his SP Quad deserved that < call and Hanyu was gifted in the LP both on PCS and GOE (especially for those shaky quads, which should have been -2 on the first and -3 on the second).
    Agreed. Dai skated 2 great programs and his LP was brilliant. The worst thing is: the judges in general gave dai great pcs and goes in the sp and the lp, he really lost because of the technical specialist/controller. There's no way he could win with all those < and e calls , low levels on spins and EVEN on step sequences (he didn't get level 4) or the -1p for the feather coming down of his costume. That was very weird.
    Last edited by Leonardo; 12-24-2012 at 01:16 PM.

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    The worst thing is: the judges in general gave dai great pcs and goes in the sp and the lp, he really lost because of the technical specialist/controller. There's no way he could win with all those < and e calls , low levels on spins and EVEN on step sequences (he didn't get level 4) or the -1p for the feather coming down of his costume. That was very weird.
    I don’t think it’s weird. Takahashi got UR calls at every event this season. He got level 3 step sequences at 3 out of the 4 events this season. If he only gets UR call and level 3 step sequence at one event this season, then it would be weird. However, if someone consistently gets UR calls and level 3s then it’s not weird at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by itoja View Post
    And what about Hanyu's 3A+3T? Was his 3T fully rotated? And 2.20 GOE for that? I know his entry is crazy, and his Axel usually is so powerful, but this time it wasn't.
    You made me curious and I went to study Yuzru’s 3A3T to see if that 3T was fully rotated. Then I found it was as rotated as the 3T of Takahashi’s 3Lz3T in the SP. If the judges thought Takahashi’s 3T was fully rotated, then they had to think Yuzru’s 3T fully rotated too. Otherwise the judges would be biased.

    Plus, since Takahashi got + GOE on 3Lz3T even with the flutz, I think the judges are in general lenient on GOEs at this competition. So by that standard, Yuzru’s +2.2 GOE on 3A3T was very correct. Btw, if you really wonder which jump was under-rotated maybe you should look at Takahashi’s 3A in the SP.

  9. #264
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    Can you just give the straight answer, was Hanyu's 3T in the 3A3T UR? I'm not interested with "as rotated as...". You may show us one of your famous landing photos.

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
    Agreed. Dai skated 2 great programs and his LP was brilliant. The worst thing is: the judges in general gave dai great pcs and goes in the sp and the lp, he really lost because of the technical specialist/controller. There's no way he could win with all those < and e calls , low levels on spins and EVEN on step sequences (he didn't get level 4) or the -1p for the feather coming down of his costume. That was very weird.
    The -1 for a piece of costume falling off is normal deduction though. It was just unfortunate that a piece of his costume fell off.

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTnoona View Post
    The -1 for a piece of costume falling off is normal deduction though. It was just unfortunate that a piece of his costume fell off.
    Indeed. That one is clear cut.

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Takahashi definitely won this event from my perspective. He vastly outskated Hanyu in the LP and made just a small mistake in the SP. I don't think his SP Quad deserved that < call and Hanyu was gifted in the LP both on PCS and GOE (especially for those shaky quads, which should have been -2 on the first and -3 on the second).
    I think the calls in the SP were likely correct (though quite strict), and I think Hanyu's win makes sense, but Dai's FS was very strong, so I can see some room for disagreement with the overall outcome

  13. #268
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    Im away for the Holidays but
    one of my biggest Christmas wish my prince Yuzuru winning Nationals , wow

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by itoja View Post
    Can you just give the straight answer, was Hanyu's 3T in the 3A3T UR? I'm not interested with "as rotated as...". You may show us one of your famous landing photos.
    In my opinion, both Takahashi’s 3T in the 3Lz3T in the SP and Yuzru’s 3T in the 3A3T were on the verge of UR. Such jumps could raise a question for the tech panel. A strict panel would call them < and a lenient panel would not call them. Since the tech caller didn’t call them, I said this panel at Japanese Nationals was not too strict. Because Takahashi’s 3T and Yuzru’s 3T were in the same situation, if the tech caller called one 3T < but did not call the other one then it would not be fair. But since they did not call on either one, I think the calling was fair in this case.

    OTOH, Takahashi’s 3A in the SP was definitely URed, no question about that, but it was not called and he got +1.43 GOE. His 3A2T2Lo< could have been 3A<2T<2Lo<, but the 3A and 2T were not called and he got +1 GOE. His 3Lz in the LP was also a flutz but was not called and got +1.26 GOE.

    Since the judges did not call any of these jumps UR and e, I’ll just let it be and I don’t want to argue about them in this thread.

  15. #270
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    I see, no straight answer from you. No surprise

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