2013 Japanese Nationals Men

[NMURA]

I completly agree that Hanyu's win isn't set - especially since at national competitions scores tend to be higher in general, and an 8 point lead is not worth as much as in an international event.

This point gap is harder to fill than international competitions. Because the judges (i.e. JSF) are obviously setting their minds on crowning Hanyu to be THE favorite for Sochi. Takahashi might have thought that he could regain the #1 position at GPF. But that seems to be an illusion.

[FSGMT]

It's another world record for Yuzuru isn't it?

The national scores don't count for world records but, even if they did, there is still Chan's 100 points at last year's Nationals

[demarinis5]

This point gap is harder to fill than international competitions. Because the judges (i.e. JSF) are obviously setting their minds on crowning Hanyu to be THE favorite for Sochi. Takahashi might have thought that he could regain the #1 position at GPF. But that seems to be an illusion.

I don't understand your train of thought. Hanyu's score I thought was deserved. He beat Dai fair and square in the SP at this competition. I don't see
any JSF involvement with the scoring at this competition.

[NMURA]

I don't understand your train of thought. Hanyu's score I thought was deserved. He beat Dai fair and square in the SP at this competition. I don't see
any JSF involvement with the scoring at this competition.

I think 10 point gap is too much in the light of Japanese nationals traditions (where seniority order is very much respected). The caller could overlook Takahashi's slight UR and the judges could give more PCS advantages to him. This is the sign of their collective determination. In almost very year, the favorite is held up strongly at Japanese nationals. This year is no exception.

[Lunna]

I'm not so sure about Hanyu winning. I'm a bit worried about him. He looked pale and tired, and didn't look so healthy. Did you notice he was out of breath when he finished SP? Still, awesome job in the not so good condition and under such tense and pressure. Thinking that he has just become 18, I agree with people who say he is a monster.

I'm a bit worried too. Hope his FS will be OK.

Kozuka was flying. I think his PCS should be higher and Dai's 4T looked good to me.
I don't like Mura's programms very much but his 4T and 3A are huge

[MaiKatze]

If this were an international event, yes. But nationals don't count for that, which is good, given how feds tend to treat these events. Guys like Chan would have some obscenely high scores in the record books if it were otherwise.

The national scores don't count for world records but, even if they did, there is still Chan's 100 points at last year's Nationals

I remember his score was high but 100? Wow....are the judges in Nationals from the country itself? I guess, that's a stupid question....maybe they should change that, haha.

[demarinis5]

I think 10 point gap is too much in the light of Japanese nationals traditions (where seniority order is very much respected). The caller could overlook Takahashi's slight UR and the judges could give more PCS advantages to him. This is the sign of their collective determination. In almost very year, the favorite is held up strongly at Japanese nationals. This year is no exception.

Thank you for the explanation. Let me see if I understand are you saying that if Dai was the favorite Hanyu would have been scored less and Dai more?
That does not sound fair to me. Thanks for your thoughts.

Wishing good cheer to all in the FS competition.

[NMURA]

I'm a bit worried too. Hope his FS will be OK.

Hanyu tends to skate better when he is not in good shape. Probably he can save stamina more carefully. I don't think they will give Takahashi very generous scores this time. Hanyu can win with TES around 78.

[ks777]

I think 10 point gap is too much in the light of Japanese nationals traditions (where seniority order is very much respected). The caller could overlook Takahashi's slight UR and the judges could give more PCS advantages to him. This is the sign of their collective determination. In almost very year, the favorite is held up strongly at Japanese nationals. This year is no exception.

I disagree. How was Hanyu strongly held up when he's been getting very similar scores at international events? If anything, Takahashi's scores were too high for URed 4t and an edge called on the 3lutz.

[chloepoco]

That was an amazing skate from Hanyu....wow!

[os168]

Great performance by Hanyu and Dai, and wow.... the amount of energy and excitement in the arena was palpable even behind Youtube!

I'd have them alot closer, maybe something like 4-5 points apart. It seems to me Hanyu had been a tad inflated, while Dai seems to have been held down for his short. Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised at the result consider Dai's SP is choreographed by Nanami Abe, Hanyu's old coach. How would it look on JSF if that program beat Hanyu's (star choreographer, coach) WR program at home. They'd certainly loose face.

In any case it seems JFS is determined to make Hanyu as their favs to Sochi (My dream for him last year lol), or hold him up in case he faltering in FS due Hanyu's stamina issues. Th boy looks tired and pale today, a bit worrying, hope he is going to be okay for his FS. For some reason in FS, I think Dai may have the upper hand this time, a bit or morozov voodoo magic can't hurt, even if I totally dislike the program itself.

Looking at the protocols, Hanyu gained so many 9s and 9.5 PCS including skating skills.. interesting. He used to get 7s to high 8s early in the season. But overall Dai got higher PCS which seems about right, but less generous with GOEs relative to what Hanyu received compare with their previous GPF outing.

[emdee]

Hanyu is a tremendous skater and star... I am full of admiration for him. Like Kozuka too so sorry that he is getting eclipsed.

[dorispulaski]

Mura SP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebqy_Jd8SdY

[doctor2014]

Th boy looks tired and pale today, a bit worrying, hope he is going to be okay for his FS. For some reason in FS, I think Dai may have the upper hand this time, a bit or morozov voodoo magic can't hurt, even if I totally dislike the program itself.

I agree with this part and think Hanyu is not set to win. Remember he also had a 9.75 point lead over Kozuka at SA but still lost overall. Perhaps Hanyu won’t skate as bad as he did at SA, but Daisuke is not Kozuka and Daisuke can score much better than Kozuka in the FS on both TES and PCS. Hanyu should not make too many mistakes, or he may lose to Daisuke. I don’t like Daisuke’s FS either but I’m fine if he wins tomorrow.

Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised at the result consider Dai's SP is choreographed by Nanami Abe, Hanyu's old coach. How would it look on JSF if that program beat Hanyu's (star choreographer, coach) WR program at home. They'd certainly loose face.

I disagree with this part because I don’t know what does Abe have to do with Daisuke’s score?
At Japan Nationals, Daisuke got
____________TES_PCS
Daisuke Nats 43.39 44.65
Daisuke lost because of TES. If you compare with international competitions, the highest PCS Daisuke got was at GPF, the only time he was clean this season.
____________TES_PCS
Daisuke GPF 49.15 43.14
At home Japan Nationals he was not clean but his PCS increased to 44.65, which is 1.51 points higher than what he got when he was clean at GPF.

And the highest international PCS Hanyu got was at SA, his first GP outing, which is odd enough.
__________TES__PCS
Hanyu Nats 53.78 43.90
Hanyu SA_ 51.71 43.36
His PCS only increased by 0.54 points at Japan Nationals. Usually skaters get higher PCS as the season proceeds, but Hanyu’s PCS is not increasing much.

Then we compare with other skaters’ Japan Nationals scores and their highest international scores:
___________TES__PCS
Kozuka Nats 43.03 41.55
Kozuka GPF 46.64 40.75
Kozuka’s PCS increased by 0.8 points at home, more than Hanyu’s increase.

_________TES__PCS
Mura Nats 45.58 38.90
Mura TEB 41.15 35.50
Mura’s PCS increased by 3.4 points!

_________TES_PCS
Oda Nats 42.20 39.55
Oda SC_ 44.61 37.53
Oda’s PCS increased by 2.02 points despite his fall today.

__________TES_PCS
Hino Nats 37.53 30.75
Hino JGPF 38.20 29.35
Hino’s PCS increased by 1.4 points.

_______________________TES_PCS
Shoma Uno Nats_______ 35.16 32.40
Shoma Uno JGP Germany 33.62 29.86
Uno’s PCS increased by 2.54 points.

So besides Machida who had a total splat today, basically everyone’s PCS increased by more than Hanyu. If we look at everyone’s score today, then I don’t think JSF or anybody inflated Hanyu’s score.

Looking at the protocols, Hanyu gained so many 9s and 9.5 PCS including skating skills.. interesting. He used to get 7s to high 8s early in the season.

I don’t know what you mean by Hanyu “used to get 7s to high 8s early in the season”? At SA, his first GP outing, he got
8.64 in SS
8.36 in TR
8.89 in P/E
8.68 in CH
8.79 in IN

At Japan Nationals, he got
8.85 in SS
8.50 in TR
8.90 in P/E
8.80 in CH
8.85 in IN
Not that much difference. If you look at others’ scores, you’ll find bigger differences.

But overall Dai got higher PCS which seems about right, but less generous with GOEs relative to what Hanyu received compare with their previous GPF outing.

I don’t understand this sentence either. Daisuke was the only one clean at GPF SP, but he made mistakes today which affected his GOEs. Hanyu, on the contrary, made mistakes and had a fall at GPF SP. He was clean today and earned GOEs similar to SA and NHK SP’s.

[Lunna]

I just watched Akio Sasaki's SP - this guy rocks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao4jO143DSg