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Thread: Asada, Kim begin road to second Olympic showdown

  1. #91
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Let me put it to you simply. Kostner would never score 150 points in a LP, or close to 80 points in a SP no matter how well she skated. End of.
    It's hard to wrap my mind around Carolina (or anyone) scoring 150 again...but nearly 80 might not be a stretch for Carolina. Some stars would have to align but I think it could be done. If she hit a 3F-3T and a 3Lz (which she is capable of even though she hasn't in a while, thus the whole "stars aligning" comment) and performed the rest of her program flawlessly, I could see her scoring that much. Her PCS are pretty much at the top of the heap and when her jumps are clean they're easily worth a +2 in terms of GOE. Her spins actually look better this year...it would take perfection but I don't think it's impossible...

    I think Carolina, Yu-Na and Mao are the only ones capable of getting close to 80 points. If Mao were able to make that 3A materialize in the SP and went clean on everything else, I think she could get close to 80 too.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    It's hard to wrap my mind around Carolina (or anyone) scoring 150 again...but nearly 80 might not be a stretch for Carolina. Some stars would have to align but I think it could be done. If she hit a 3F-3T and a 3Lz (which she is capable of even though she hasn't in a while, thus the whole "stars aligning" comment) and performed the rest of her program flawlessly, I could see her scoring that much. Her PCS are pretty much at the top of the heap and when her jumps are clean they're easily worth a +2 in terms of GOE. Her spins actually look better this year...it would take perfection but I don't think it's impossible...

    I think Carolina, Yu-Na and Mao are the only ones capable of getting close to 80 points. If Mao were able to make that 3A materialize in the SP and went clean on everything else, I think she could get close to 80 too.
    Mao did skate totally clean with a triple axel combo at the Vancouver Olympics and barely scored over 73 so your last point has already been shown wrong. Kostner can barely score mid 60s at times with a triple toe-triple toe and triple loop, she wouldnt be scoring near 80 points even with a triple flip-triple toe and triple lutz, under any years rules.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Mao did skate totally clean with a triple axel combo at the Vancouver Olympics and barely scored over 73 so your last point has already been shown wrong. Kostner can barely score mid 60s at times with a triple toe-triple toe and triple loop, she wouldnt be scoring near 80 points even with a triple flip-triple toe and triple lutz, under any years rules.
    Do you agree everyone got inflated PCS at the Olympics. Yuna got almost 34 in the SP. I think that's a world record. By today standard, she would get at most 32. Don't think even Kim can come close to what Kim did in Vancouver.

    As for Mao, her flip didn't get any GOE. She was not as good.
    Here's another event with the same layout,
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wt..._SP_Scores.pdf

    Her TES here was 44.40 and with Vancouver PCS, 32.28, it would be 76.68.

    Under the Olympics, with 3F-3T, 3Lutz, I'm sure she will come much closer to both Asada and Kim.

  4. #94
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Mao did skate totally clean with a triple axel combo at the Vancouver Olympics and barely scored over 73 so your last point has already been shown wrong. Kostner can barely score mid 60s at times with a triple toe-triple toe and triple loop, she wouldnt be scoring near 80 points even with a triple flip-triple toe and triple lutz, under any years rules.
    In Vancouver the base values were different as were the required elements. Besides, I'm talking about replacing the 2A with the 3A in addition to doing a combo, possibly even a 3-3 which she's capable of. It's all hypothetical b/c she hasn't done it in competition in a long time. It might be a stretch but I doubt it's impossible...

    As for Carolina, if she matched Yu-Na's jump layout jump for jump (again not impossible, just a little improbable), I don't see how she wouldn't be on par with scoring 70+. Carolina would earn the same if not higher PCS and she receives level 4s on everything except the layback...so yeah, especially for Carolina, if the content is there I could totally see that happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Carolina would earn the same if not higher PCS
    This is pure fantasy, and based on nothing other than wishful thinking. Kostner has NEVER received higher PCS than Kim in a competition both were in together even once, and I would be happy to post the protocals of every event they were in together if you think this isnt the case, let alone Kim skating her best competition ever in Vancouver. Kim was averaging around 9 per component in her PCS in Vancouver, Kostner would never do this no matter how well she skated.
    Last edited by pangtongfan; 12-21-2012 at 01:33 PM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    This is pure fantasy, and based on nothing other than wishful thinking. Kostner has NEVER received higher PCS than Kim in a competition both were in together even once, and I would be happy to post the protocals of every event they were in together if you think this isnt the case, let alone Kim skating her best competition ever in Vancouver.
    News flash: Carolina Kostner is the reigning world champion.

    True, Carolina hasn't beaten Yu-Na in PCS in the past...however, you should note that Yu-Na has not competed against Carolina since worlds in 2011. Since then Carolina's stock has risen considerably in this sport to the point I'd say she could go toe-to-toe with Yu-Na in PCS and possibly come out the victor.

    No one's using Yu-Na's Vancouver score as a measuring stick b/c it's unlikely we'll see those numbers again...even from Yu-Na. My point is Carolina has grown in the last few years and is a better skater. She's widely regarded as having some of the best if not the best skating skills, programs and interpretation in the field. I don't think it's fantasy or wishful thinking. Carolina could give Yu-Na a legitimate run for her money in PCS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    True, Carolina hasn't beaten Yu-Na in PCS in the past...however, you should note that Yu-Na has not competed against Carolina since worlds in 2011. Since then Carolina's stock has risen considerably in this sport to the point I'd say she could go toe-to-toe with Yu-Na in PCS and possibly come out the victor.
    I agree with this. Besides the jumps (which are a big factor in TES and YuNa has a huge edge) there is nothing that YuNa does better than Carolina. So their PCS should be close. The good thing for YuNa is that she doesn't have to beat Caro on PCS to win because of her advantage in TES.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    News flash: Carolina Kostner is the reigning world champion.
    News flash back, Kostner lucked out to win Worlds in a super weak year with nobody there. She took her opportunity and ran with it, and I happy for her, as it will probably be her only one.

    I am not going to even bother entertaining your delusions and fantasy World anymore. Think what you want, but the idea Kostner is, ever was, or ever will be, capable of an almost 80 point short program and 150 point long program, or should we even say an 85 point short program and 160 point long program based on FlattFan's projections of crushing the Yu Na in Vancouver (ROTFL) is living in an alterior universe, so I am going to orbit back to earth now.

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    Did you guys not look at the NRW protocols? Yuna's SP PCS were HIGHER than her PCS in Vancouver SP. Unlikely to see such scores anymore? FlattFan saying 32 is what she's likely to get? What's speculation when you have actual PCS scores handed by real ISU judges less than a month ago?

    Yuna's PCS on a clean day are still in the 9's. She broke 200 points at NRW with a popped 3-jump combo, a fall on another combo, and a level 1 spin. Not to mention the new rules that factor GOE, eliminate the spiral in the SP, and 2 double Axels max in the LP. Her points ceiling is still way above Carolina's.

    And there's no way Carolina can do a solo 3Lz out of steps in the SP. She struggles to land that jump in competition even when she telegraphs it with a very long glide. At best she's looking at 3F+3T and solo 3Lo. With that kind of SP layout, she'll still need Yuna to make some mistakes in the free to beat her with a clean skate.

  10. #100
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    News flash back, Kostner lucked out to win Worlds in a super weak year with nobody there. She took her opportunity and ran with it, and I happy for her, as it will probably be her only one.

    I am not going to even bother entertaining your delusions and fantasy World anymore. Think what you want, but the idea Kostner is, ever was, or ever will be, capable of an almost 80 point short program and 150 point long program, or should we even say an 85 point short program and 160 point long program based on FlattFan's projections of crushing the Yu Na in Vancouver (ROTFL) is living in an alterior universe, so I am going to orbit back to earth now.
    *sigh* You're the one stuck on the score numbers.

    My only point was to say that Carolina has as much scoring potential as Yu-Na, meaning if they had the exact same jump layout and both executed it cleanly, their scores would be very close. Both have beautiful jumps and excellent skating skills so it's not unreasonable to assume as much. Just use your imagination a little...

    The reality of the situation is, given the recent trend in her jump layout from the past two seasons, it is highly unlikely Carolina will have the same technical content Yu-Na will, which is why (I'm assuming) you're so against the mere suggestion Carolina could be on par with Yu-Na. Carolina is a top skater--the top skater if you want to be technical and go by the ISU standings. She doesn't have the technical prowess of Yu-Na when it comes to jumps but I think she's as good as if not better than her nearly everywhere else. That does nothing to diminish the brilliance of Yu-Na...it just means that on a good day, Carolina is one of probably two people who has a chance of beating her.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    Did you guys not look at the NRW protocols? Yuna's SP PCS were HIGHER than her PCS in Vancouver SP. Unlikely to see such scores anymore? FlattFan saying 32 is what she's likely to get? What's speculation when you have actual PCS scores handed by real ISU judges less than a month ago?
    It's not a real competition, they only use it for TES portion to determine who can go to world. PCS at these kind of events are not "real" Just like Caro got 36+ for PCS in the SP.

    I'm very sure it's unlikely we are going to see such scores in the real competitions.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krislite View Post
    And there's no way Carolina can do a solo 3Lz out of steps in the SP. She struggles to land that jump in competition even when she telegraphs it with a very long glide. At best she's looking at 3F+3T and solo 3Lo. With that kind of SP layout, she'll still need Yuna to make some mistakes in the free to beat her with a clean skate.
    I agree with you that she can't do a solo 3Lz. But if the trend is any indication, most top men just do solo 4T without any steps and not taken a hit with -GOE. Caro does a solo 3Lz, should still get +GOE.

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I1DF...ature=youtu.be

    the step sequence is to die for. This is the gold standard for PCS, a real, captivating program with some newness to it. Most girls would die to have this kind of program and to be able to perform this kind of program.

  14. #104
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    She got straight 3's for it.

    I think what makes this program so perfect is that she hits every note of the music -- and it's not an easy tune to skate to!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    *sigh* You're the one stuck on the score numbers.

    My only point was to say that Carolina has as much scoring potential as Yu-Na, meaning if they had the exact same jump layout and both executed it cleanly, their scores would be very close. Both have beautiful jumps and excellent skating skills so it's not unreasonable to assume as much. Just use your imagination a little...

    The reality of the situation is, given the recent trend in her jump layout from the past two seasons, it is highly unlikely Carolina will have the same technical content Yu-Na will, which is why (I'm assuming) you're so against the mere suggestion Carolina could be on par with Yu-Na. Carolina is a top skater--the top skater if you want to be technical and go by the ISU standings. She doesn't have the technical prowess of Yu-Na when it comes to jumps but I think she's as good as if not better than her nearly everywhere else. That does nothing to diminish the brilliance of Yu-Na...it just means that on a good day, Carolina is one of probably two people who has a chance of beating her.
    I disagree, esp. when it comes to spins. Caro's spins are nice, but absolutely nothing special. Yuna's inverted camel (not everyone's cup of tea I know) is harder and more interesting than any spin that Caro does. Her spin speed is not that great, her layback is nothing close to true layback (yuna's leg position is not the greatest but at least she can bend her spine so the head is at the level of her lower back- it's layed back in a true sense), but Caro only does a neck back, at most. Overscored, when it comes to spins.

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